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Author Topic: My wishlist stuff  (Read 2785 times)

Potman

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My wishlist stuff
« on: April 30, 2007, 05:01 »

So I'm new here. Been playing DoomRL for about a year now, currently on Major rank, and trying to finish Angel of Purity. Hi guyz. *Waves*

Okay, to topic at hand: You face an Arachnotron. A horrible, horrible mutant spider that fires lethal plasma blasts at you! *Gasp*, how terrible! You will certainly die! Unless... You manage to sneak behind a corner, wait until the Arach comes close enough, and then jump straight in front of it. Poor Arachnotron will try to bite you or beat you with its legs, while you can rip it apart with your own plasma gun.
Yeah well, I think that the fact how you can use your ranged weapons in close combat but enemies can't is pretty unfair, seeing from the monster's side, that is. Those poor widdle demons who can't shoot you anymore when you get close! This must be changed at once! Two suggestions concerning this, even when both make the game somewhat harder:

A) Disable your ability to fire enemies up close. So if a demon closes up at you, you can't shoot it anymore. You'll be forced to use your chainsaw or LS or whatever weapon you have on melee. You can't aim your gun over this creature, so you can't fire any units behind it either, although you could shoot anything else in everywhere else. But you can, of course, fire a rocket or BFG blast somewhere pretty close to sweep this annoying monster from existence.

B) Allow the monsters to fire you even on melee. This'd make Angel of Berserk pretty much impossible, though (not that I care, since I've finished AoB already). Plus, it'd make Former Sergeants quite a bit more lethal as well.

So whaddya think? Can't blame me for being on a bad guy's side for a change, now can you? You can? Drat.

Edit: Well since this'd make the game somewhat harder, I guess we could balance that a bit by adding one feature that I totally loved in the original Doom: Monster infighting. Would that be even remotely possible?

Also, monsters. Mancubus will be added, but there're still three monsters that're missing and should be in the game:

- Spectre: Like demon but with 50% chance to dodge. Also compeletely invisible and unseen if it stands still and does nothing (except for Inituition). Its general strategy would be waiting just where it is until the player comes close enough, then it attacks. Would appear first around the same time than Cacodemons, and there'd be a couple in Hell's Arena as well.

- Revenant: 40 hit points, 2 armor. Fires weakish homing rockets that won't hit right away: They'd travel about three times as fast as the player (on Cautious, without Hellrunner or anything like that) and home straight on target. 'Course, you can always just make it so that there's another enemy between you and the missile. Perfect for starting monster infighting (see above). Would appear the same time with Barons of Hell.

- Spider Mastermind: 150 HP, 4 armor. Armed with a sorta shotgun-chaingun hybrid that fires 8 rounds each turn. Could inhabit Spider's Lair, and appear once all Arachnotrons've been destroyed.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2007, 09:37 by Potman »
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Fingerzam

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Re: Regarding close combat
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2007, 06:41 »

So I'm new here. Been playing DoomRL for about a year now, currently on Major rank, and trying to finish Angel of Purity. Hi guyz. *Waves*

Welcome aboard.

Okay, to topic at hand: You face an Arachnotron. A horrible, horrible mutant spider that fires lethal plasma blasts at you! *Gasp*, how terrible! You will certainly die! Unless... You manage to sneak behind a corner, wait until the Arach comes close enough, and then jump straight in front of it. Poor Arachnotron will try to bite you or beat you with its legs, while you can rip it apart with your own plasma gun.
Yeah well, I think that the fact how you can use your ranged weapons in close combat but enemies can't is pretty unfair, seeing from the monster's side, that is. Those poor widdle demons who can't shoot you anymore when you get close! This must be changed at once! Two suggestions concerning this, even when both make the game somewhat harder:

Well, I do understand your reasoning, but, at least in the case of arachs, I see it as their weakness.

A) Disable your ability to fire enemies up close. So if a demon closes up at you, you can't shoot it anymore. You'll be forced to use your chainsaw or LS or whatever weapon you have on melee. You can't aim your gun over this creature, so you can't fire any units behind it either, although you could shoot anything else in everywhere else. But you can, of course, fire a rocket or BFG blast somewhere pretty close to sweep this annoying monster from existence.

I like this one more than the other solution, but the shotgun user in me doesn't like it, but it would make the CS a common weapon to carry around.

B) Allow the monsters to fire you even on melee. This'd make Angel of Berserk pretty much impossible, though (not that I care, since I've finished AoB already). Plus, it'd make Former Sergeants quite a bit more lethal as well.

Well, this would make melee games in general harder, and the already hard beginning part even harder, so I don't really see this as an option.

But perhaps implementing B for only some of the harder difficulties would be a good way of creating additional difficulty.
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TFoN

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Re: Regarding close combat
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2007, 07:37 »

I agree with Fingerzam, your reasoning's good, but Arachs have this as their intentional weakness.

Tactical issues rising from (A) can be countered (somewhat slowly and inefficiently) by taking levels in Hellrunner, or more easily with a level in Brute, but I'm not sure I want to have to take levels in anything in order to survive an early-game melee-range Imp without wasting several medkits. Demons are even worse, of course.

(A) could also be counetered by my suggested Massacre Man trait (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php?topic=627.0), but I don't know if Kornel's planning on implementing it, and you don't get the chainsaw early enough (nor do you gain enough levels for an advanced trait early enough) for this to deal with those same early Imps.

Potman

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Re: My wishlist stuff
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2007, 09:35 »

UPDATE!

Added some more stuff, so that I'dn't need to do another thread for all it. See the first post.
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DisaffectedBeta

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re: potman's wishlist stuff
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2007, 01:55 »

I guess the problems with Spectres is their implementation.  The dodge chance is one way to do it.  I don't think invisibility was said to be practical, but maybe we could balance that with defense instead...  armor or dodge maybe.  A harder version of the demon would fill a gap between the low levels and the hell knights, in my opinion.

The Revenant, actually, has two types of missiles, a homing missile (with the smoke trail) and a regular missile.  You could have it fire multiple imp fireballs at the same target, emulating the non-homing missles, with a resultant tunneling effect that current monsters don't have unless you're slow.  The revenant missiles weren't like full-on missile launcher missiles, so this might fit, maybe as a step between demon and cacodemon.  Speedy, maybe, but relatively weak, with an item drop of a pair of rockets, if you're so inclined, or a death which results in their exploding...  :)

The pantheon of beasties is quite full right now, although a little top heavy when things begin to escalate.  I don't remember fearing Hell Knights in the original doom anywhere near as much as in RL :)
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Kornel Kisielewicz

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Re: My wishlist stuff
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2007, 10:14 »

The Spectre will be implemented after the sightcode rewrite (I have an idea for it). As for the revie, the revie is a problem though...
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Kornel Kisielewicz

DisaffectedBeta

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Re: My wishlist stuff
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2007, 00:43 »

Is the revvie a problem if you want the guided missiles?  Since it did have two types of missiles (really!) I can see it being stuck in as a placeholder in case you find a good guided missile method.  It's OK either way, of course.  Good to hear you haven't completely given up on the spectre, but don't, you know, go nuts trying to change everything.  I remember you going through a lot to try to implement POV, and in the end it wasn't worth it.
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