DRL > Discussion

About Shotguns....

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Karry:
Shotguns are not worth it right now, because the game balance is built that way.

1. It is firing extremely slow. For example, lev.1 char kills an imp in 2 shots with both a chaingun and a shotgun, on average. However, you might pull off firing twice in a row with a chaingun, whereas after you fire a shotgun once - imp may get enough time to throw his fireball twice. And after THAT you still have to spend another turn reloading.

2. Shotguns get their own dedicated perk, Shottyman. However, it means that if you take it - two levels of Reloader are essentially wasted. Not only that, but you are still pretty vulnerable while reloading, so you must also get Hellrunner, and STILL firing pretty slow, so you must also get Finesse...
Look at pistols now. You take two levels of Son of a Gun - you get access to Dualgunner, but Son of a Gun levels keep working for you ! Well, they are broken now, but they should, in theory, anyway.

3. If that was not enough - further in the game shotgun ammo gradually stops appearing. Chaingun ammo is still plentiful.

I love shotguns, but in recent versions i am rather reluctant to even try winning a game solely with them.
Track earlier versions, shotguns were stronger then.

Behrooz Wolf:

--- Quote ---Look at pistols now. You take two levels of Son of a Gun - you get access to Dualgunner, but Son of a Gun levels keep working for you ! Well, they are broken now, but they should, in theory, anyway.
--- End quote ---

Oh, I'm pretty sure that all aspects of son of a gun work now. >:D  Tell it to all the AVs who died without getting a shot off in my last AoMR game...

Ischaldirh:
The point you raised about shottyman I must agree with. However, I never use SOLEY any one weapon. Usually I use pistol and shotty for the first few, using the shotty for the first volly and then switching over for a clip of pistol, then drop the pistol for the chaingun, and eventually either the shotty or the CG gets left for a rocket launcher. And having a few levels of Reloader REALLY helps with the RL, particularly at the Wall. And later when I start dealing with gangs of tough and angry monsters I start using the RL more and more. So the reloader levels don't go entirely to waste...

Karry:

--- Quote ---Oh, I'm pretty sure that all aspects of son of a gun work now. >:D  Tell it to all the AVs who died without getting a shot off in my last AoMR game...
--- End quote ---
Well, if you know the code better than Kornel himself, then maybe i will believe your words. Or you're talking about the beta ?

Fingerzam:

--- Quote from: Karry on June 11, 2007, 01:12 ---1. It is firing extremely slow. For example, lev.1 char kills an imp in 2 shots with both a chaingun and a shotgun, on average. However, you might pull off firing twice in a row with a chaingun, whereas after you fire a shotgun once - imp may get enough time to throw his fireball twice. And after THAT you still have to spend another turn reloading.

--- End quote ---

Umm, I think every weapon takes the exact same time for shooting, which is 1000 energy.


--- Quote from: Karry on June 11, 2007, 01:12 ---2. Shotguns get their own dedicated perk, Shottyman. However, it means that if you take it - two levels of Reloader are essentially wasted. Not only that, but you are still pretty vulnerable while reloading, so you must also get Hellrunner, and STILL firing pretty slow, so you must also get Finesse...
Look at pistols now. You take two levels of Son of a Gun - you get access to Dualgunner, but Son of a Gun levels keep working for you ! Well, they are broken now, but they should, in theory, anyway.

--- End quote ---

This was already pointed out, but the levels in reloader really help with rocket launcher. And shottyman really is a nice a trait for double shotty lovers like me, so I don't mind spending two levels of reloader before that, especially when they help you before you get shottyman.


--- Quote from: Karry on June 11, 2007, 01:12 ---3. If that was not enough - further in the game shotgun ammo gradually stops appearing. Chaingun ammo is still plentiful.

--- End quote ---

This is true. Biggest reason for this is that there are two kinds of former humans dropping you ammo for chaingun, and the other drops a nice total of 150, while you only get shells from former sergeants, and even then you only get 30. I've completed games where I mainly use only double shotty and RL when needed. You can get through this by hoarding enough shells earlier, but still I usually ran out of shells on floor 23 or 24 (cleared these with RL and then killed Cybie with my BFG's).


--- Quote from: Karry on June 11, 2007, 01:12 ---I love shotguns, but in recent versions i am rather reluctant to even try winning a game solely with them.
Track earlier versions, shotguns were stronger then.

--- End quote ---

I like shotguns too, and use them often outside AoB/AoMr. I can agree that Chaingun is perhaps a better weapon and that the ammo issue is a serious one, but I still prefer shotguns. After you've cleared CoS with shottyman and double shotgun, you too will love them. :D

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