[0.9.9.3 win] Spawned in a trap

[Ander Hammer]

Maybe I can change your mind.

That's how the numerical probability works, yes, but the chance of actually getting a cave level with a disconnected river after 10, 25, 100 caves remains under one percent; your luck doesn't change the more safe caves in a row you find.

Even the 50% chance of having landed one after 100 caves (assuming you've actually landed in the disconnected river without a way out) isn't very serious. I think it's still worth it to discuss the issue and make sure it just can't happen ever, as well as spawning ideas to tighten up some related bits of game.

[Thexare]

Frankly, that's the sort of RNG screwing I consider entirely unacceptable. There's no sort of skill that can get around that short of carrying a phase device and hoping for the best - remember that in several challenges, that's your only option; no rocket launchers in AoB, AoMr, AoSh, or AoPc, and you can't seriously count on Hellwave Packs nor should you have to waste one getting out of this situation.

And, not to repeatedly bring up my own idea, but it doesn't make any sense for staircases to start or end in rivers or on a bridge anyway - preventing that would prevent this and it'd be more logical than the current state anyway.

[Simon-v]

Not to mention all cave walls are indestructible, or at least were such last time i checked (which was probably about a month ago).

[AStranger]

I'll admit that my analysis is actually just the percentages of seeing a cave level with a vertical river, the probability of getting stuck is actually much lower. I was in a hurry when posting and got ahead of myself.

Yeah, but you missed the second part.

Wait, now you expect me to be able to read? For some reason when you said 'not fix', I heard 'leave it in the game', not 'create reachability tests instead of fixing this one corner case'. I would still consider fixing this, but I'm the type that likes getting rid of bugs (shown by the last six months of my past job being spent solely refactoring/bug fixing) but in reality as long as the end user doesn't experience it, the underlying implementation doesn't matter to me.

That's how the numerical probability works, yes, but the chance of actually getting a cave level with a disconnected river after 10, 25, 100 caves remains under one percent; your luck doesn't change the more safe caves in a row you find.

My apologies, I never meant to imply that the probability changes if you are only ever looking at one level generation. My point was that even though 0.75% may not seem very likely, if you repeat that chance enough eventually the odds become stacked against you. Now I'm curious about the probability of getting stuck given you have a cave level. Probability states that I've most likely already seen a disconnected cave/river level, but without a computer map or a mob/me being generated in there I wouldn't know.

Frankly, that's the sort of RNG screwing I consider entirely unacceptable. There's no sort of skill that can get around that short of carrying a phase device and hoping for the best - remember that in several challenges, that's your only option; no rocket launchers in AoB, AoMr, AoSh, or AoPc, and you can't seriously count on Hellwave Packs nor should you have to waste one getting out of this situation.

This was pretty much what I was thinking. The probability was a more numbers oriented argument because I didn't think I'd be able to articulate this as well as you did.

[thelaptop]

Not to mention all cave walls are indestructible, or at least were such last time i checked (which was probably about a month ago).

Just tested it yesterday.  Only a Phase Device could save me that time.

Wait, now you expect me to be able to read? For some reason when you said 'not fix', I heard 'leave it in the game', not 'create reachability tests instead of fixing this one corner case'. I would still consider fixing this, but I'm the type that likes getting rid of bugs (shown by the last six months of my past job being spent solely refactoring/bug fixing) but in reality as long as the end user doesn't experience it, the underlying implementation doesn't matter to me.

Yeah, you were supposed to read the second line in my two-line/two-paragraph post.  Between fixing the underlying bug, which requires a lot of added dependency checks when generating each item, and just doing accept/reject tests, I'm going to think the latter is more useful.

Level generation doesn't take that long, does it?

[AStranger]

Yeah, you were supposed to read the second line in my two-line/two-paragraph post.  Between fixing the underlying bug, which requires a lot of added dependency checks when generating each item, and just doing accept/reject tests, I'm going to think the latter is more useful.
Level generation doesn't take that long, does it?

It was a poor attempt at humor on my part. I agree that if you generate items/mobs on a disconnected level checking each time is a waste of energy, I had just assumed the bug happened during the level layout generation before item placement. Without knowing how things are it doesn't feel like much work to track a min/max column number while generating the cave and then placing the river within that range. Either way sanity checking the level after it's generated is still a good idea, but it can't hurt to cut out a failure if possible. It does make future additions smoother. I'm wasn't disagreeing with you, I just misunderstood you at first. Sorry about that.

[thelaptop]

I'm wasn't disagreeing with you, I just misunderstood you at first. Sorry about that.

Don't worry about it.  No offense taken.  =D