DRL > Requests For Features

NO save challenge mode.

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Daqin:

--- Quote from: Potman on January 29, 2008, 04:36 ---We're not thinking that all players play that way. We're not saying that all mortems are made without cheating. You're missing the entire point here. Because your argument is not "I think we should prevent cheating". It's "I think we should make a challenge that prevent cheating, thus conveniently allow the cheaters not to choose it and non-cheaters just ignore it". It's what I call stupid and pointless.
--- End quote ---

Actually, you are missing the entire point. Your explanation partly reveals the point. Also, instead calling it stupid and seeking arguments against it, try to find benefits, if you can.. To tell you some more, cheaters would chose it to prove they are not cheaters. While non-cheaters would chose it to show they are not these. This is just example.


--- Quote ---Maybe they'll need to save because they have something more important to do. And what do you think will happen when this option is removed? They can't just take a break anymore. If it's something really important, their only option will be to commit suicide, possibly bringing a promising game to stupid end. Or if it's just something slightly less important, such as going fishing with your son, you'll just go "Hang on, I'll just play this game first" and gain reputation as a father who puts his stupid video game before spending quality time with his kid.

--- End quote ---
Well, you could compare this mode to going to cinema: you have some special experience and you can't just save/pause and come back later to continue. Either you stay and watch to the end, or you leave.

chalup:
Let's get this straight: you want some way to tell if person posting a mortem on the forum cheated by backuping the save (which is called savescumming, wheater you like it or not)?

Malek Deneith:
Considering that mortem can be edited I could play such "challenge" once and then just copy-paste the line that is supposed to show a no-save game. So much for cheating prevention.

chalup:

--- Quote from: Malek Deneith on January 29, 2008, 05:41 ---Considering that mortem can be edited I could play such "challenge" once and then just copy-paste the line that is supposed to show a no-save game. So much for cheating prevention.

--- End quote ---
That would be my next point to show that this is stupid idea.

You want anti-cheat system? So let's do it the right way!

First of all, Kornel would have to add the save counter to the mortem. For example in ADOM (great rougelike btw) you get the entry "He saved the world while saving himself xxx times" or something like that.

Don't forget that the game still crashes occasionally and FORCES the save. So the "cheatproof" entry in the mortem will appear only if you are lucky and the DoomRL doesn't crash.

This of course would not prevent the easiest way to cheat - fabricating mortems. So we need additional measure of security, for example appending to the end of the mortem the hash of its contents (hash = small number generated from the large data). Then Kornel would have to create some kind of mortem validator, so we would be able to check if the mortem wasn't edited.

Doesn't it all sound ridiculous already?

Dude, you have to ask yourself two questions: why do I really think this feature is needed? Why do I read and post the mortems on the forum?

Isn't it easier just to trust people (maybe I'm too naive)? And if someone posts fake mortems to seek attention, do you really care? Honestly I'd feel rather sorry for that person. Wouldn't you?

Aerton:
The game is supposed to be played this way all the time. It would be ridiculously easy otherwise. It will effectively legalise savescumming in all other modes. If some anti-cheat scheme is to be deployed, it should in not be confused with gameplay mechanisms.

Previously, the game could be played without ever using the save key, but now it became a bit too long for that.


--- Quote from: chalup on January 29, 2008, 05:23 ---Let's get this straight: you want some way to tell if person posting a mortem on the forum cheated by backuping the save (which is called savescumming, wheater you like it or not)?
--- End quote ---
You know, you don't even have to download the game for that. Copy&Paste FTW!

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