General > Discussion

Can you play as a bad guy?

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Daqin:
I second the insight. As for myself, I don't see them as good or bad guys. They have their own reasons and conditions they live/lived under. So the guy who doesn't trust and sticks to caring for himself has his own reasons based on life experiences that make him believe things are some way and he acts accordingly, for his own survival. He may act different way when he feels safe, not threatened, or with honest person. So I rather would sort guys as reasonable/sensible or ignorant/fools. For example someone who acts as if he is walking goodness may be very foolish and behave in a way to confirm this selfimage he has, obviously ignoring some dangerous facts that require different action. On the other hand the guy who destroys everything without the reason for that, and acts blindly on emotions without considering or concern for anything, is just as same ignorant or idiotic. Those reasonable guys however, no matter if their way of life is stealing or helping people, I would put into same category. The difference between them is just way of seeing the life, however whatever this way is, they base their actions on reason, sense, considering many factors without ignorance, although their knowledge and understanding of life may be very different. No one is alike, so how we can tell what way should the other person behave if we don't know how he sees the world? So, if we don't know, how can we tell what way is good for him and what way is bad for her, if we can't tell what the person should do to benefit (since we don't know what is beneficial for others). What may be beneficial for you at the same time may have opposite effect on someone else. Because of that, what sense is in generalisation of way of behaving and judging which way is good or bad, if it doesn't fit anyone (except the person who made the judgement). That's why IMO we can only base our view on reason, consideration and experience. When experience is understood it becomes actual knowledge and understanding. Since we have different experiences, we are at different progress of understanding them, so our knowledge is different. If I base my action on my knowledge, it would be not required to expect from you to behave the same way, because you base your actions on your knowledge, and it just wouldn't make sense and wouldn't work. Actually forsaking your own knowledge and blindly doing what you are convined to, ignoring any understanding that you may have, leads to creating those silly guys who destroy everything in their path or do something oposite just for the sake of concept.
Thats MHO.

Daqin:

--- Quote from: torch on February 04, 2008, 02:51 ---This is moral choice one, ...

--- End quote ---

Hmm.. Since the war is to save colony, it doesn't make sense to kill members, and after such act no one would feel safe with captain's actions since they were supposed to make people safe. On the other hand, sacrifice few to save the rest. Yes, that could work, but only if the person sacrifices himself. There is no right to demand or force someone into that, otherwise whole war will be for nothing, because there will be new war: war within the colony. If no one sacrifices himself, than captain could do whatever he can in other way. And if it means wipe is almost certain, then surely there would individuals appear ready to give their life for the others, since they are going to die otherwise anyway..
That's my captain way of thinking :)

Edit:
Ultimately, since being captain is due to some unique qualities, you could sacrifice yourself to enhance others with one and be ulimate example and proof, for this way to be the only way, for the rest of colonists..

007bistromath:
You think playing as a bad guy is tough? Try playing as a practical guy instead of standard, milquetoast, world-peace-and-puppies lightsider sometime. At least 90% of the time, if you're playing a good guy, you barrel headlong down every Good is Dumb trap the world has to offer. And if you get in an argument. Good god. KotOR is probably one of the strongest examples of this. If you get in a debate with anyone about anything, you only have the most obvious, simplistic, polarized tactics at your disposal, regardless of how much you've pumped into your mental stats. And god forbid you start talking to anyone older than you: instant lecture no matter what your answers are, and all you can do is sit there and say "uhhh buhhh I dunno lol."

More games should be like Deus Ex. There were parts in that game where you were the one laying down the science. I honestly believe that game should be part of a high school curriculum thanks to some of JC's dialog.

Korimyr the Rat:

--- Quote from: Potman on February 01, 2008, 07:24 ---1) The black/white-feeling how it's done. Like, bad guys are always child-eating, puppy-smashing, granny-kicking assholes who spit on everyone's face and always get negative reaction from everywhere.
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Yeah, I hate this. It's cartoonish, stupid evil and it's boring. If I have the chance to play an evil character, I want to be manipulative and ruthless, but more than anything, I want to be effective. I want to be a Magnificent Bastard, not some sneering obnoxious punk.


--- Quote from: Potman on February 01, 2008, 07:24 ---I just can't play with that kind of character, not without being sick of my own evilness at least. Hell, I can't even understand why they'd ever be interested in avenging their father or stuff like that, which is what you usually do in RPGs.
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Even bad men love their Mamas. And if you're the ambitious, ruthless kind of evil instead of the omnicidal maniac kind... well, the world is where they keep all their stuff, and they're not interested in ruling a pile of rubble.


--- Quote from: Potman on February 01, 2008, 07:24 ---2) Good guys always get, not only the nice feeling of doing something that matters (that should be enough for any good guy), but also much much bigger rewards and loads more experience than the evil ones.
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Hate hate HATE this. Some games actually give you more money for taking evil options... but those are typically games in which money just doesn't matter very much.

Even worse is games which allow you the evil option... but which provide you so much less plot coverage for taking it. You don't get to have evil quests, and taking the evil option usually shuts off several good quests. Not to mention (again) the lack of meaningful rewards for evil characters.


--- Quote from: Potman on February 01, 2008, 07:24 ---I want the most experience and the best stuff, you'll play with the Innocent Momma's Boy. I want my games for entertainment and escapism, not ethics education, thank you very much.

--- End quote ---

Yeah. I usually play the Evil path... but only after I've beaten the Good. I'd like to see a game that makes them equally compelling-- or offers you moral options besides "Good" and "Evil".

RepoRipper:
i have to say this: i have a very big story thats been going through my head for 10 years now (stuck at 2/3rds finished... bad guy chapter next, WAY too few bad guys. uh oh...), and my story uses what i call the "Splitting Timeline Theory" (note, this thing is to parrel worlds as the sun is to a flashlight. a CHEAP flashlight.). this theory covers all things, all possibilities, and impossibilites, even alll variations on the Laws of Reality! so, half of my characters are litterally taken from books, movies, games, anything. a few of the more debatable ones were born from images. yeah.... anyway, the story is about the endless battle between Doomsday Defender and the Recruits (good guys), and Doomsday Destroyer and the Dark Recruits (bad guys, yeah im bad with names). all the Recruits and Dark Recruits are "Legends" from their Timelines. ignore what thats about, just know that if your not a Legend, u wouldnt make it through 5 seconds as a Recruit, and if your a Legend, your either good or evil. neutral Legends exist, but once recruiterd they are either good or evil. period. no grey area. after all, Destroyer and the Dark Recruits single goal is to destroy enough timelines to destabilize the rest to the point of chain reaction.... ie, the end of all existence. id say theres no gray area there! point is, my good guys are pretty dark sometimes.... one of them, Grim, is the Incarnation of Death for his timeline. and hes a good guy! then theres the Inferness... she flings balls of *hellfire*... good ...?girl?.... lol. BUT. the bad guys, oh they are so fing bad. the most dangerous of them is Graven, Gravity Breaker. he can manipulate gravity, and he is HIGHLY sadistic. he enjoys flinging people into the walls, floors, and ceilings at JUST under what it would take to kill them. or he can just pancake you with 500 G's. and he was given a gift of the most powerful Force of Legend (all Legends have one, think of it like an ultimate attack) of any Recruit, Dark or otherwise. the "Gravedigger's Boom", a blast wich annihilates everything in its path. it can even kill gods... in fact it did once! ill continue later, i was just saying some of these guys don't even HAVE mamas, and most of those that did, usually killed them for the fun...

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