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Master Traits

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ZZ:

--- Quote from: Karry on November 14, 2009, 10:33 ---I didnt say "best", i said "useful". Meaning, i dont think that many of them should be in the game at all.

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No difference, really. Depends of game-style.

--- Quote from: Karry on November 14, 2009, 10:33 ---Except that even with 2 EoE _AND_ an accuracy mod you miss with chaingun about 1 in every 7 shots i'd say. Without that - who cares about running out of bullets, if you cant hit anything. Also the bullets are weaker, and going to hell without TAN is a certain death. 3 Revenants rockets are guaranteed to destroy red armour and leave you with 10-15% health. You cant kill a Revenant in that time with weak inaccurate bullets.

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Hey, guy. Nobody uses chaingun with Ammochain if you have Plasmagun. It misses even more, but the average guy puts there 2-3 Agility mods.WK, remember? And with it, nobody even has time to shoot. Fin, remember? And bullets do 6.5 dmg, 10 bullets in a row, 2 rows at a turn(SoaB+TH+Fin). Is THAT weak?

Jarkko:
I think Army of the Dead is more for combat shotties than double shotguns. Shotguns hit 100% of the time, even monsters which you don't see. The damage of a combat shotty is decent at long range after you get the armour piercing from the trait, especially with a power mod or two. 2 + 2 = shoot combat shotty down every hallway, if you hear a sound keep shooting until you hear no more. Double shotty would really benefit from HR + DM.

Ammochain is pretty much the same for plasma guns. With unlimited ammo you can kill stuff out of LOS pretty good without fear of retaliation. Ammochain is especially ridiculous on AoMC challenges where the plasma gets perfect to-hit and damage, becoming perhaps the best weapon to use in those challenges.

These tactics are kind of lame though and aren't much use in N! where stuff keeps respawning.

Frankosity:
Personally, I don't like Gun Kata at all. It sounds good on paper, especially the free reloads, but the restrictions on it mean your damage per second is godawful. I'd rather get SoaB and kill everything without having to reload than having to dance around waiting to dodge an attack so I can get some free shots in.

Also, I find it's usefulness decreases exponentially when you get to the level that Revenants and Arch Viles start spawning in, and you're going to get your arse kicked in confined spaces whatever you're fighting.

I think Ammochain is overpowered. A more balanced version of the trait would be that you use ammo, but you never need to reload- the gun automatically feeds itself from the ammo in your inventory.

Madtrixr:

--- Quote from: Frankosity on November 14, 2009, 12:31 ---I think Ammochain is overpowered. A more balanced version of the trait would be that you use ammo, but you never need to reload- the gun automatically feeds itself from the ammo in your inventory.

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Actually, That's a really good idea.

AStranger:
My 2 cents.

Ammochain: I think it's broken for some of the earlier difficulties, but I think it's a good fit for the game given what N! is like. Sometimes you just need to kill a ridiculous amount of mobs just to be able to get to more ammo, other times you are in the arachnotron caves and reloading is just time you don't have. Plus it 'unlocks' the ability to shoot in the dark like shotguns can without draining all your ammo (picture an open area, one shotgun blast covers a decent amount of squares, I would estimate it takes ~3-5 volleys from a chain weapon to cover the same ground, 1 shell vs half a stack of cells?). The only thing I would change is that it shouldn't block SoG, mainly because pistols don't work with ammochain and I would like to take both traits during an Ao100 run.

Fireangel: I only really took this during my last AoPc run, but I like it. Probably because I like juggler and badass, so it's only one extra level of traits to unlock if I'm not doing something specific. I think this is the most versatile master trait spanning all weapon types. Every other trait either requires a certain weapon type(s) or heavily favors one (Cat eye).

Cateye: Never been a huge fan of it, even in earlier versions when it wasn't a master trait. It has a decent fan base though, so I say it's a keeper.

Army of the Dead: How can you pretend to be Ash without it? The reality is that trying to kill a mob with some amount of armor isn't a great situation without plasma. Given that plasma halves armor protection, shotguns really need some help in terms of taking down harder mobs to compete. Although blocking HR is kinda rough, it might be too broken if you could have DM and MAD.

Gun Kata: Pistols need help. I have no complaints with this other then it doesn't play nice-nice with uniques, but I'm assuming that'll be fixed. Actually pistols need so much help that my last AoMr run I had to resort to punching the Cyberdemon to death. I should just keep more ammo I guess, but pistols do need a master trait.

Blademaster: Never taken it.

Vampyre: I'm glad to see most other people think this is reasonable because every time I've taken it I get afraid that it is too good and that it will get nerfed. Maybe it's just my play style because I notice more of the AoB mortems have Blademaster then Vampyre. Although given that ~70% of my Cyberdemon kills are melee and the LS is my most commonly found artifact, I might just like melee too much.

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