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New Fireangel reqs, better or worse?

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Game Hunter:
Old Fireangel requirements:
Ironman(1), Juggler(req. Finesse(1)), Badass(req. Tough as Nails(2))

New Fireangel requirements:
Dodgemaster(req. Hellrunner(2)), Shottyman(req. Reloader(2))

Considering MFa is heavily favored towards a Shotty build, I tried out a AoSg run on UV with Fireangel in mind.  Inevitably the lack of health got to me and I died without so much as a small med-pack to my name on around floor 8 or 9: this could have been either from lack of Badass to keep the globes or lack of TaN to absorb damage, but I can say that the dodging only helped marginally, not much better than the typical running around.  As it was, the fact that it takes at least 1.0s (1.2s for double) to fire means that the enemy almost always attacks after you do, making Dodgemaster worthless.  This could be reconciled by getting much closer (forcing some knockback which sometimes flinches the enemy into moving forward) but still unreliable for a shotty when compared to straight-up damage absorption.

I then took a step back and tried it on HNTR instead, covering the original problems of the first run with the following build:
Rel->Rel->Shotty->TaN->TaN->Bad->HR->HR->DM->MFa

I quite literally completed this only after finishing level 24 (too many caves) but I did get to try it out.  All in all, it worked fairly well: building up towards the typical AotD and then switching to Fireangel was surprisingly capable.  I absorbed damage and kept my health high for much of the first half, then I was able to run up to the harder enemies later on with superior speed and some built-in dodging.  Dodgemaster ends up making a shotty run in Arach caves as easy as an MGK run, a very nice benefit.  Bruisers took forever but with the chokepoint in the middle of the map I didn't take damage.  Cyberdemon was very easy with this build, as I simply stayed within two tiles of him, sidestepped until he fired a rocket, then blasted him with the double.  Given enough shells (probably about 50 or so) he was downed without me ever eating a rocket.

The nice thing about MFa is that it doesn't block a couple of remarkably useful traits for a shotty run, namely HR and Finesse.  HR for the reasons stated before; Finesse is useful not only with the faster firing (which prevents undodgable retaliation) but the potential WK can be great for power mods, making up for the lack of armor-piercing rounds. 

Has anyone else tried out Fireangel with a shotty run in mind?

action52:
I haven't been able to get far enough with the Fireangle build to test it, but my guess would be that MFa would be really strong in the endgame but weaker in the beginning and midgame, whereas the AoD build is kickass in the beginning and midgame, but a little weaker in the endgame.

Like you said, in the beginning it's hard to avoid getting killed even with hellrunner--you really have to play the coward's game. In the end though, the hardest enemies like Mancubi, Revenants, and Archviles suddenly become a lot less scary. This makes things SO much easier. If you're lucky enough to have the assault shotgun, you can push them out of your view then dodge when they come close enough to see you. Or just dodge everything except easy kills and make a run for the exit--you probably won't be hurting for experience too much at that point. Cyberdemon is a breeze since you have dodgemaster.

With AoD, you get an extremely powerful character through the early levels with TaN and Badass. Midgame your armor-piercing shotgun should do crazy damage against Barons and the like. But you will find it doesn't kill the endgame demons fast enough to prevent yourself from taking lots of damage. Arachnotrons and Commandos will chip away at your health. And unless you're lucky enough to find a really good exotic or unique shotgun, it will be very difficult to kill most Mancubi or Archviles before they kill you. And if you don't have some phase devices and large medkits left over by the time you get to the Cyberdemon you will be in for an extremely difficult fight.

So yeah, MFa is tough in the beginning but pays off later. AoD is awesome in the beginning but weaker than other builds at the end.

Fanta Hege:
The problem in my opinion with it is that the trait are both more in the 'mid tier' of usefulness unlike the other master traits that use atleast one 'higher tier' trait.
Hellrunner and Reloader are both useful but honestly, I wouldn't really start with them, I'd just stack them up once I get my main builds up.
Tan and Bad are more of a higher tier traits, thus why as said, it is easier trait to handle in the early game.

..But Fireangel is still a very godly master trait. The fact that is lowers the damage from the end game enemies like 70% means you can literally dive into a mancubipack.

I never really liked the Fireagel as a shottubuild idea though but atleast we now have a trait to go with double shotgun users!
I haven't really gotten the taste of fireangel much in the newer version but I'll probably try it as a varity in my N! Ao100 runs.

action52:

--- Quote from: Fanta Hege on March 22, 2010, 21:54 ---The problem in my opinion with it is that the trait are both more in the 'mid tier' of usefulness unlike the other master traits that use atleast one 'higher tier' trait.
Hellrunner and Reloader are both useful but honestly, I wouldn't really start with them, I'd just stack them up once I get my main builds up.

--- End quote ---

But doesn't that make it more balanced? You have a really awesome endgame trait, but the tradeoff is that your traits aren't as good in the beginning.

UnderAPaleGreySky:
It's also made getting Pacifism Diamond harder. Now you're VULNERABLE TO VILES.

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