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New Fireangel reqs, better or worse?

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Game Hunter:
Just tried a MFa run on AoH (only HNTR so hard to say how well it works) and I got through without any problems.  I was simultaneously hoping to clear the Vaults, what with three phases and (eventually) a Hell Staff, but alas, I got Mortuary instead.  I've tried AoH UV/100% run using MFa for the longest time but haven't gotten higher than clvl 5.  Maybe Ammochain is the only way to go on that, save an early unique (which reminds me of this time I got the Trigun on the first level.  Freaking Rev killed me at 40% HP/blue armor, I was so pissed).

One thing I noticed is that I took NO damage from the Cyberdemon's rockets, even on direct hits.  Or at least they looked like direct hits...like, me getting hit by the rocket.  Could've been me "dodging" forward and getting "hit", except the rocket didn't reach its intended target.  Mancubus hits still hurt as expected, so it's not completely buggy...I'll try to get some more details later.

Doops:

--- Quote from: action52 on March 22, 2010, 16:35 ---And unless you're lucky enough to find a really good exotic or unique shotgun,

--- End quote ---
About 30 minutes ago I was lucky enough to find an assault shotgun and a super shotgun, mod them both with power and AoD. They knew the wrath of the boomstick.
I also had some Onyx-modded red armor.

I love the shotgun build. I use it most of the time. Maybe could that could explain why I die often since I'm a kick-in-the-door style player. When I start combat I will go into run mode and get a few lucky dodges but I pretty much plan to soak up damage.

 So far I go for:

TaN>TaN>Bad>Rel>Rel>Shotty>TaN>Iro>Iro>Iro

in my shotgun builds. It's worked well so far.



--- Quote from: Game Hunter on March 26, 2010, 19:12 ---Just tried a MFa run on AoH (only HNTR so hard to say how well it works) and I got through without any problems.  I was simultaneously hoping to clear the Vaults, what with three phases and (eventually) a Hell Staff, but alas, I got Mortuary instead.  I've tried AoH UV/100% run using MFa for the longest time but haven't gotten higher than clvl 5.  Maybe Ammochain is the only way to go on that, save an early unique (which reminds me of this time I got the Trigun on the first level.  Freaking Rev killed me at 40% HP/blue armor, I was so pissed).

One thing I noticed is that I took NO damage from the Cyberdemon's rockets, even on direct hits.  Or at least they looked like direct hits...like, me getting hit by the rocket.  Could've been me "dodging" forward and getting "hit", except the rocket didn't reach its intended target.  Mancubus hits still hurt as expected, so it's not completely buggy...I'll try to get some more details later.

--- End quote ---

How did you get the Trigun on level 1? I've never found it at all actually. Also my guess is that like the normal rocket launcher, the cyberdemon's rockets don't hit you directly, just the explosion hits you so it's absorbed by MFa.

Game Hunter:

--- Quote from: Doops on March 28, 2010, 01:24 ---How did you get the Trigun on level 1?
--- End quote ---

--- Quote from: Me ---I've tried AoH UV/100% run ... which reminds me of this time I got the Trigun on the first level.
--- End quote ---
That is, AoH plants you on level two from the get-go.  I was extremely fortunate to have found it then, too, could've been my ticket to clearing the Haste badges.  Trigun is a BADASS weapon, I really didn't realize it until that run.  Didn't even bother with DG, SoaG(x3) already gave me ~40DPS for the one gun.  Given the choice between that and blaster, though, I'd probably stick with Blaster and mod it to all hell.

I can sympathize with fortunate shotty finds, having gained a super shotgun and Jackhammer in the same game (and rather early, too).  Combined with MAD it's absolute destruction; combined with MFa it's more like Gun Kata with a shotty.  (A good comparison is that Gun Kata blocks the all-important SoaB used in offensive pistol builds, just as MFa doesn't give the same ridiculous damage output of MAD.)  If you're the kind of person who relies on a combat, MAD is probably better than MFa, whereas double shotties benefit more from the ability to get up in the face of the enemy and, more importantly, Cybie.

Also, I think you're missing MAD in there...unless you don't use it, which is MADness. (I'm guessing it goes between Shotty and TaN #3 though.)

Doops:
yep just forgot to put it. i think i will try a shotgun fireangel build today.

Doops:

--- Quote from: Game Hunter on March 22, 2010, 15:59 ---Old Fireangel requirements:
Ironman(1), Juggler(req. Finesse(1)), Badass(req. Tough as Nails(2))

New Fireangel requirements:
Dodgemaster(req. Hellrunner(2)), Shottyman(req. Reloader(2))

Considering MFa is heavily favored towards a Shotty build, I tried out a AoSg run on UV with Fireangel in mind.  Inevitably the lack of health got to me and I died without so much as a small med-pack to my name on around floor 8 or 9: this could have been either from lack of Badass to keep the globes or lack of TaN to absorb damage, but I can say that the dodging only helped marginally, not much better than the typical running around.  As it was, the fact that it takes at least 1.0s (1.2s for double) to fire means that the enemy almost always attacks after you do, making Dodgemaster worthless.  This could be reconciled by getting much closer (forcing some knockback which sometimes flinches the enemy into moving forward) but still unreliable for a shotty when compared to straight-up damage absorption.

I then took a step back and tried it on HNTR instead, covering the original problems of the first run with the following build:
Rel->Rel->Shotty->TaN->TaN->Bad->HR->HR->DM->MFa

I quite literally completed this only after finishing level 24 (too many caves) but I did get to try it out.  All in all, it worked fairly well: building up towards the typical AotD and then switching to Fireangel was surprisingly capable.  I absorbed damage and kept my health high for much of the first half, then I was able to run up to the harder enemies later on with superior speed and some built-in dodging.  Dodgemaster ends up making a shotty run in Arach caves as easy as an MGK run, a very nice benefit.  Bruisers took forever but with the chokepoint in the middle of the map I didn't take damage.  Cyberdemon was very easy with this build, as I simply stayed within two tiles of him, sidestepped until he fired a rocket, then blasted him with the double.  Given enough shells (probably about 50 or so) he was downed without me ever eating a rocket.

The nice thing about MFa is that it doesn't block a couple of remarkably useful traits for a shotty run, namely HR and Finesse.  HR for the reasons stated before; Finesse is useful not only with the faster firing (which prevents undodgable retaliation) but the potential WK can be great for power mods, making up for the lack of armor-piercing rounds. 

Has anyone else tried out Fireangel with a shotty run in mind?

--- End quote ---

Well I just completed a regular HNTR shotgun/fireangel build. It requires good dodging skills and you need to know the enemies attack patterns to use it affectively. I beat the cyberdemon with P1 Super Shotgun but I had problems dodging his rockets from about 2-3 tiles away. All in all its a very nice build if you like speed, dodging, and shotgunnery.

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