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Author Topic: Badges, badges, badges!  (Read 3524 times)

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Badges, badges, badges!
« on: March 30, 2010, 14:13 »

Feel free to talk about how much you hate, or have tried to get, or find entirely impossible, whatever badge(s) you're working on.

For me, I look at badges like "Complete Angel of Masochism" for Gold and think, that's fair, and then badges like "Clear Lava Pits on AoMs" which should not be all that much easier, if not harder (you'll need a lot of envirosuits to stay safe) but see it placed as Silver.  If you're thinking, well I can just nuke Lava Pits, then yes, you could.  You can also nuke Cybie when you get to him...in another TWO FLOORS, which is by no means grueling.  If Lava Pits weren't so far down I wouldn't mind, but it should probably be placed at the same difficulty level as completing AoMs.  Especially when I read on the Wiki that it's supposedly buggy and that you aren't supposed to be able to use envirosuits in AoMs.

Another pain is Brick Silver.  Again, maybe it's just me, but the luck required to not only reach the other side of the Wall, but somewhere that isn't going to insta-kill you, AND enough to make it out alive (so at the very least, one phase and one homing, the latter of which is really unlikely that early), feels like it's on the same luck magnitude as, say, Angel of Pacifism.  This is not even mentioning that you need to kill (at the very least) eight HKs and six Barons, in a large room, with nothing but pistols and chainsaws.  I'll be honest, I haven't really tried for this badge all that much, but I don't feel like wasting time on a Silver that requires the RNG of a Gold+.  Jackal is another possibility, but again: Gold+ RNG I'm not wasting time on, and I SURE as hell am not doing Wall on AoMr N!, Jackal or no.

Shotty Platinum has been avoiding my grasp for some time now, but lately it's felt like one of the easier N! challenges.  You have a better shot at Hell's Arena than most builds, you're basically done building offensive traits at level 7, and you are provided with a nice range of weapons.  Only downside is possible lack of shells, but at least they aren't used up as quickly as...just about every other ammo type.

Does anyone else feel like the Centurial Platinum/Diamond should be toned down?  I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that Centurial Diamond is 100% impossible (or certainly will be the last badge ever gotten by anyone, ever).  A100 N! doesn't exactly sound all that easier, either.  Maybe set Plat as A100 UV and Diamond as A100 N! w/ 70% kill rate?  (A high enough number to force players to kill through every map possible, but not impossibly high for 100 floors.)
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Fanta Hege

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Re: Badges, badges, badges!
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2010, 14:56 »

Quote
Does anyone else feel like the Centurial Platinum/Diamond should be toned down?  I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that Centurial Diamond is 100% impossible (or certainly will be the last badge ever gotten by anyone, ever).  A100 N! doesn't exactly sound all that easier, either.  Maybe set Plat as A100 UV and Diamond as A100 N! w/ 70% kill rate?  (A high enough number to force players to kill through every map possible, but not impossibly high for 100 floors.)

Personaly beeing a person of N! Ao100 (having reached up to level 59, which took 2 hours 30 minutes) I have to say, I kinda agree on the Diamond one. You just can't dash through it anyway like that. Under 1 hours is just impossible. I'd rather play it all meelee.

But on more topic; I'm as you might have guessed, been hunting Centurial Diamond/Platinum lately.
Having tries ammochain build and fireangel so far, I have to say, it has proven to be very diffucult at the start. I still have faith in myself to say I might be able to pull off the N! Ao100 at some point. The fast monsters of 9.1 have racked up the diffuculty for me quite nicely, though the gibbing has also given me a big relief against hell knights and other nasty corpses.

My other badge huntings so far have been Impatience related challenges and the Reaper Diamond.
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UnderAPaleGreySky

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Re: Badges, badges, badges!
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2010, 22:56 »

Gunning for Longinus and Veteran Diamond. Longinus will be tricky, seeing as I'm relying on AoMC with a chainsaw/Cleaver/DS to take the bastard down (I don't plan on lava racing it, as it takes away some of the self-satisfaction, IMO).

Veteran, I came close to when I got Destroyer Diamond (had the nuke and everything, but no invuln globe on the level). Honestly, dashing through hell as a Pacifist Fireangel sounds easiest, so thats what I'm gonna do.
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Re: Badges, badges, badges!
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2010, 00:38 »

Did a quick AoMr run on HNTR (mostly to test a single pistol run...not easy but not that hard, either) and got something like four phases and a homing by level 10.  Guess what?  Wall didn't generate!  Now I think the RNG's just screwing with me.

Any suggestions for a Purity run?  I noticed that I haven't even touched it yet, but I'd say MAc or MCe is the best option there.  Badass is wasted, Ironman is only half as effecive...I suppose MFa is also up in the air.

Oh, and I'm curious as to how many people have completed the standard UV game as Conqueror.  Now THAT sounds like a hardcore challenge, as it essentially forces some amount of melee build into your game and yet you also have to be capable enough to handle Mortuary, not to mention either lucky enough to avoid generating Vaults (I pretty much see it all the time) or have a nuke/invuln or lotsa phases.  If there's one run that requires one hell of a divine RNG, it's probably that one.

Question (for anyone and everyone): what challenges do you consider harder on UV than on N!?  My first thought is AoPc, if only because fast monsters don't affect you that much when you don't fight, and doubled durations/healing are that much more useful.  Perhaps AoB?  It's not like you ever stay around long in that one, either, and the doubled Berserks in the Court are a godsend, I'm sure.
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action52

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Re: Badges, badges, badges!
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2010, 19:25 »

Another pain is Brick Silver.  Again, maybe it's just me, but the luck required to not only reach the other side of the Wall, but somewhere that isn't going to insta-kill you, AND enough to make it out alive (so at the very least, one phase and one homing, the latter of which is really unlikely that early), feels like it's on the same luck magnitude as, say, Angel of Pacifism.

I don't think it's quite that high. On AoB, you're guaranteed a homing device in Hell's Arena, which is hard but quite doable on HNTR (one thing that helps is to take 3 levels of Brute instead of berserker--enemies are too few and too spread out for berserker to work well there). If you find an invulnerability sphere or berserk pack close to the entrance to The Wall--I would say the chances of this are quite good if you play the game on AoB a lot--you just need to have a phase device get you to the other side. If you can get yourself in the middle of the Barons and Hell Knights with invulnerability or berserk active, it should be a cakewalk. You should be able to keep your berserker status easily, allowing you to mow through them without even needing a med-pack if you start the level at 100% or higher.

If you have the Anti-Freak Jackal, I can't imagine it would be that hard either, at least not on HNTR. Just take them one at a time.

Also, if you find the Trigun, you could just nuke the level.

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Gargulec

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Re: Badges, badges, badges!
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2010, 02:42 »

I don't think it's quite that high. On AoB, you're guaranteed a homing device in Hell's Arena, which is hard but quite doable on HNTR (one thing that helps is to take 3 levels of Brute instead of berserker--enemies are too few and too spread out for berserker to work well there). If you find an invulnerability sphere or berserk pack close to the entrance to The Wall--I would say the chances of this are quite good if you play the game on AoB a lot--you just need to have a phase device get you to the other side. If you can get yourself in the middle of the Barons and Hell Knights with invulnerability or berserk active, it should be a cakewalk. You should be able to keep your berserker status easily, allowing you to mow through them without even needing a med-pack if you start the level at 100% or higher.

If you have the Anti-Freak Jackal, I can't imagine it would be that hard either, at least not on HNTR. Just take them one at a time.

Also, if you find the Trigun, you could just nuke the level.

Concerning the AoB, the way you speak about it... Apart from if's, have you actually done it? Cleared the Wall on AoB?
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action52

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Re: Badges, badges, badges!
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2010, 07:06 »

Nah. I've never gotten the Jackal on AoMr, and I haven't played AoB much yet... not even 10 games. But I think I'll put my money where my mouth is and make the Silver Brick my next goal. As soon as I finish my current game (Angel of Impatience) I'll be doing nothing but AoB for awhile. I'll post the mortem if I manage to pull it off.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2010, 07:07 by action52 »
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Re: Badges, badges, badges!
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2010, 14:25 »

I'm not saying that it should be hard...if you have the items necessary to do it.  The exact same is true of AoP, after all: it can be really, really easy if you get a few lucky stairs early on and some homings.  The problem comes from getting that luck in the first place...unlike just about every other silver medal, Brick Silver requires only a paltry amount of skill and a rather unproportionally large amount of luck.
- AoMr: Early uniques have vanishingly small chances and tend to be Cleaver more often than not (keep in mind only one of the three pistols will do it as is...early blaster is more likely but not by much, and Trigun will require invuln at JUST the right time).
- AoB: A guaranteed homing, sure, but it requires you to beat Hell's Arena (which requires some luck in the timing of enemy attacks, your knife properly two-hitting demons, and a sufficient number of health packs and armor to survive the guaranteed damage).  Then you still require an average of two phase devices to properly make it to the other side of The Wall.  I once had three phases and not one of them passed me to the other side of The Wall, even though the odds should be about 50%.

The Silver could be from the fact that all this luck has to occur relatively early, allowing you to restart prematurely and work the RNG faster until you get the desired results.  AoB is more likely to give you better odds, having most of the luck occur before and during HA, but it's not much of a comfort knowing you still need a couple of phases and a decent teleport (ie, not die the second you make it to the other side) for a successful run.  All in all it's a badge that isn't very fun to go for, just one that you'll "happen to get" eventually.  The same can be said of just about every Diamond badge, but at least they're MEANT to be like that.

Lava Silver sure is annoying, though...I really don't feel like doing another AoMs run on HNTR, and there's almost no chance of me doing it on harder difficulties short of a nuke (if that even works).
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glacialxice

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Re: Badges, badges, badges!
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2010, 10:52 »

Code: [Select]
DoomRL (v.0.9.9.1) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------

 x, level 6 Demon Sergeant, killed by a baron of hell
 on level 14 of the Phobos base.
 He survived 50066 turns and scored 31626 points.
 He played for 44 minutes and 5 seconds.
 He didn't like it too rough.

 He killed 260 out of 314 hellspawn. (82%)
 He was an Angel of Marksmanship!


-- Awards ----------------------------------------------------

  Brick Silver Badge

-- Graveyard -------------------------------------------------

  ###########################################################
  #....#==&#...........+.........................#...........
  #....#===#..[........................0.........#...........
  #....+===+.................>...................#...........
  #....###########+###############################...........
  #....#..&....#.................................#...........
  #....#.......#........................^........############
  #....#.......+............=..............i.....#...........
  #....#.......#........0=====.........\...i.....#...........
  #....#.......#.........=====..................Bhi..........
  #....#.......#......%..=====.......B...^.......#...........
  #....+......./..........===............i.......#...........
  #....#|......#.................................#..........;
  #....#.......#.................................#...........
  #....#.......#############/###/#########################/##
  #....#.......#.............=..............%.%..#...........
  #....#.......#.............=.................%./%..........
  #....#.......#..........X.;....................#...........
  #....#&.....%#................0..........|.....#...........
  ###########################################################

-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------

  Health -3/50   Experience 15846/6
  ToHit Ranged +0  ToHit Melee +0  ToDmg Ranged +2  ToDmg Melee +2

-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------

    Son of a bitch   (Level 2)
    Son of a gun     (Level 3)
    Dualgunner       (Level 1)

  SoG->SoG->DG->SoG->SoB->SoB->

-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------

    [a] [ Armor      ]   blue armor [1/2] (32%)
    [b] [ Weapon     ]   modified pistol (2d5) [4/6] (P1)
    [c] [ Boots      ]   nothing
    [d] [ Prepared   ]   pistol (2d4) [4/6]

-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------

    [a] blue armor [1/2] (46%)
    [b] 10mm ammo (x10)
    [c] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [d] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [e] small med-pack
    [f] small med-pack
    [g] small med-pack
    [h] large med-pack
    [i] phase device
    [j] phase device
    [k] thermonuclear bomb

-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------

    84 former humans
    35 former sergeants
    8 former captains
    51 imps
    12 demons
    40 lost souls
    9 cacodemons
    7 barons of hell
    12 hell knights
    2 arachnotrons

-- History ---------------------------------------------------

  He started his journey on the surface of Phobos.
  On level 6 he stormed the Chained Court.
  On level 9 he found Hell's Armory.
  On level 11 he witnessed the Wall.
  He massacred the evil behind the Wall!
  On level 12 he ventured into the Halls of Carnage.
  On level 14 he finally was killed by a baron of hell.

-- Messages --------------------------------------------------

 You wear/wield : a blue armor [2/2] (100%)
 There is a Computer Map lying here.
 Everything seems clear now.
 You open the door.
 Fire -- Choose target...   The barrel explodes! Boom!
 Fire -- Choose target...   The missile hits the baron of hell.
 Fire -- Choose target...   The missile hits the baron of hell.
 Fire -- Choose target...   The missile hits the baron of hell. The missile
 hits the baron of hell.
 The baron of hell uses a small med-pack. The baron of hell looks healthier!
 You dualreload your guns!
 Fire -- Choose target...   The missile hits the imp. The imp dies.
 You dodge! Boom!
 Fire -- Choose target...   The missile hits the baron of hell. The baron of
 hell fires! You are hit! The barrel explodes! Your blue armor is

-- General ---------------------------------------------------

 Before him 61 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
 55 of those were killed.
 And 4 couldn't handle the stress and committed a stupid suicide.

 Some rumours though, say that the Cyberdemon was killed already!
 Is he immortal? 2 souls claim to have killed him...
 2 killed the bastard and survived.

--------------------------------------------------------------



Well, i tried for the silver brick badge a few days ago and succeeded on the first attempt. Yes it is just a silver badge, but it has a good story behind it. Before attempting the wall i had a phase device, a homing phase device, five large med packs and two pistols. After phasing behind the wall i just lined the barons up by moving away from them, while they damaged themselves i pumped them full of lead and won in no time. However i was left with no med packs and very few defences. Sure enough i died soon after the wall, but at least i got the badge :)
« Last Edit: April 08, 2010, 11:45 by glacialxice »
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action52

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Re: Badges, badges, badges!
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2010, 07:02 »

Getting through Hell's Arena on AoB is proving much harder than I remembered it. I used to be able to get to the third round in most games, but I found myself having a hard time even making it to round 2. At first I thought it was just me, but then I remembered that demons got a buff in the new version. They really wear down your health now, making iut considerably harder to beat it in the new version. So I'm just skipping the Arena now. I figure the odds are better that way. Anyway I want to try and get some Berserk badges, so I'll keep pushing through the game and trying The Wall if I get there with more than one phase device. So far it hasn't hapened though.

Congratulations glacialxice! Personally, I always seemed to wind up getting killed whenever I tried for Silver on AoMr.

EDIT: I finally get a good run going--I'm on level 4, ready to run and get the chainsaw for the first time in a 0.9.9.1 AoB run, when I go berserk right next to the exit. I go to kill a sergeant, and he takes off 14% health in one shot! Seems I have been a victim of the infamous "berserker" bug in this version, where you don't get the defense bonus if your berserk status comes from the trait. *Sigh* Sorry guys, I think I'm going to call it quits on AoB unitl they get a bugfix out (and hopefully I'm more skilled at this damned game).
« Last Edit: April 12, 2010, 03:39 by action52 »
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Re: Badges, badges, badges!
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2010, 20:14 »

WARNING: Big post.  Don't let it scare you into replying, though. :D

Been looking at the badges lately, and I'm wondering if there are plans to...*cough*...balance them a little.  Some are impossible (not just stupid hard), some are scaled poorly, some are way too easy.  I'm going to write a new list here, lemme know what you guys think about it and if it's a fair list without removing the challenge (and, in some cases, brain-dead insanity) of the old one.  (Changes are in bold for easy reading.)

Bronze:
UACWin standard game on any difficulty
VeteranWin game on any difficulty with 100% kills
StrongmanWin standard game using basic melee weapons
BerserkerReach level 7 on Angel of Berserk
MarksmanReach level 12 on Angel of Marksmanship
ShottymanReach level 12 on Angel of Shotgunnery
LightfootReach level 12 on Angel of Light Travel
EagernessReach level 12 on Angel of Impatience
RunnerReach level 8 on Angel of Haste
InquisitorReach level 12 on Angel of Purity
QuartermasterReach level 12 on Angel of Red Alert
DestroyerReach level 12 on Angel of Max Carnage
BrickClear out The Wall
LavaClear out the Lava Pits
SkullClear out City of Skulls
ReaperExit the Mortuary alive
ScavengerScavenge part of the Vaults*
ArenaComplete Hell Arena
ArachnoClear out Spider's Lair

*: This is just a better specification of how to achieve the badge.  It will work the same as the current Scavenger Silver.

Silver:
UACWin standard game on Hurt Me Plenty
VeteranWin game on Hurt Me Plenty with 100% kills
StrongmanWin standard game using knives and fists
BerserkerReach level 16 on Angel of Berserk
MarksmanComplete Angel of Marksmanship
ShottymanComplete Angel of Shotgunnery
LightfootComplete Angel of Light Travel on HMP
EagernessComplete Angel of Impatience
RunnerComplete Angel of Haste
InquisitorComplete Angel of Purity
QuartermasterComplete Angel of Red Alert
DestroyerComplete Angel of Max Carnage
MasochistComplete Angel of Masochism
BrickClear out The Wall on AoMr, AoSg, or AoB
LavaClear out the Lava Pits on UV
SkullClear out City of Skulls on UV
ScavengerClear the Vaults
ArenaComplete Hell Arena on UV
ArachnoClear out Spider's Lair on UV

Gold:
UACWin standard game on Ultra-violence
VeteranWin game on Ultra-violence with 100% kills
StrongmanWin standard game using knives and fists HMP
BerserkerComplete Angel of Berserk
MarksmanComplete Angel of Marksmanship on UV
ShottymanComplete Angel of Shotgunnery on UV
LightfootComplete Angel of Light Travel on UV/no MAc
EagernessComplete Angel of Impatience on UV
RunnerComplete Angel of Haste on UV/100%
InquisitorComplete Angel of Purity on UV
QuartermasterAngel of Red Alert at 100% kills
DestroyerComplete Angel of Max Carnage on UV
MasochistComplete Angel of Masochism on UV
CenturialComplete Angel of 100
PacifistComplete Angel of Pacifism
ReaperComplete the Mortuary
GatekeeperClear Hellgate on UV AoMs
ArenaComplete Hell Arena on UV AoMr
LonginusComplete Unholy Cathedral

Platinum:
UACWin standard game on Nightmare!
VeteranFully win the game on Ultra-violence
StrongmanWin standard game using only fists on HMP
EliteWin standard UV game as Conqueror
DemonicWin standard Nightmare! game as Explorer
BerserkerAngel of Berserk on Nightmare!
MarksmanAngel of Marksmanship on Nightmare!
ShottymanAngel of Shotgunnery on Nightmare!
EagernessAngel of Impatience on Nightmare!
InquisitorAngel of Purity on Nightmare!
QuartermasterAngel of Red Alert on Nightmare!
DestroyerAngel of Max Carnage on Nightmare!
MasochistAngel of Masochism on Nightmare!
CenturialAngel of 100 on Ultra-violence
PacifistAngel of Pacifism on Nightmare!
ReaperComplete the Mortuary on Nightmare!
ScavengerClear the Vaults on Nightmare!
ArenaComplete Hell Arena on Nightmare!
LonginusComplete Unholy Cathedral on Nightmare!

Diamond:
UACWin standard Nightmare! under 20k turns
VeteranFully win the game on Nightmare!
StrongmanWin standard game using only fists on UV
EliteWin standard Nightmare! with min 85% kills
DemonicWin standard Nightmare! under 18 min*
BerserkerAngel of Berserk on N! without TaN/HR
MarksmanAoMr on N! basic pistol/without DG+
ShottymanAngel of Shotgunnery on N! with min 80% kills
EagernessAngel of Impatience on N! as Explorer
QuartermasterAngel of Red Alert on UV/100%
DestroyerAoMC on N! without Iro/adv traits^
MasochistAngel of Masochism on N! without Iro/TaN
CenturialComplete Angel of 100 on Nightmare!
PacifistComplete Angel of Pacifism on N! without HR
BrickClear The Wall on Nightmare! AoI
ReaperComplete the Mortuary on Nightmare! AoB
ArenaComplete Hell Arena on Nightmare! AoMr
LonginusComplete Unholy Cathedral on N! without Brute
UltimateWin N! with Gambler's Shield and only fists#

*: This was increased as per Dervis's supposed fastest run, see http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,2272.msg19591.html#msg19591.
+: Using blaster or any of the uniques voids this badge.
^: Adv traits are any traits that require other traits to unlock.
#: This is the "joke" badge that's meant to be impossible, something hopefully averted in other badges with the changes.

Some justifications:

- Scavenger/Reaper Bronze are stupid easy, so the others have been shifted accordingly.
- Masochist probably deserves more badges, it doesn't have the same quality as 100/AoPc to warrant starting at Gold.
- Berserker gets a slight facelift on levels (seven is immediately after Chained Court can generate; sixteen requires you to pass Hellgate and just before UC) and a more significant one on harder difficulties.  AoB's difficulty lies in two basic problems (although this doesn't cover everything): reaching the Chainsaw and surviving whenever zerk armor isn't on (bug aside).  The way I see it, UV/N! isn't a big enough gap in the first few levels reaching Chained Court to merit separate medals, and Diamond's lack of HR/TaN prevents the all-important survival.  However, you have other options that improve your ability nonetheless (incidentally, Finesse should affect all weapons, not just ranged...c'mon, like having the finesse to wield a martial weapon is any different from a gun, if not moreso) like Iro and SoB, which gets you to level 10 easy.
- Brick Silver has AoSg added because, the way I see it, the point of the badge is to have enough luck to either get a wall-destroying special weapon or enough phases.  AoSg limits explosive attacks just like AoMr and AoB, and has a possible wall-killer (plasma shotgun, maybe).  It doesn't make it any easier but it increases the availability of working towards the badge.
- Swapping Quartermaster Gold and Platinum is a personal choice, given that 100% kills on HNTR is actually pretty simple with a little luck with rooms and having enough globes to run around.  I could do with adding some other challenge, like Explorer.
- Centurial has the same treatment as the original Berserker badges: UV for the Plat and N! for the Diamond.  Given that the normal Centurial Diamond is impossible (yes, yes it is, don't try to deny it) and UV A100 is still ridiculous, I think this is a fair challenge.  If you want to be mean (but probably possible) we could say the player can't hit level 20.
- Gatekeeper Gold is basically the replacement for Masochist Silver, which is not only not in a very good badge range but (if envirosuits really aren't supposed to work in AoMs) ridiculously luck-based.  I like the idea of trying to add a Hellgate challenge, especially one that would prefer to phase through the level.
- Demonic Diamond is the old UAC Diamond (albeit slightly easier) and UAC Diamond now limits turn count rather than time, turning it into a game of "how fast can I level up and build up the right equipment for Cybie in the same time it takes for AoPc?" Both should be possible, but more tweaking may be necessary.
- Marksman Diamond gets rid of the stupid-impossible "without SoG" and, instead, enforces one non-special pistol.  I don't think it's unfair to restrict uniques on a Diamond badge (and no one will blame you for using it, AoMr N! is damn hard on its own) and would normally make it a lot easier, so this negates that possibility.
- Inquisitor Diamond seems pretty moot to have more (only Chained Court is really the only threat as an Explorer).  Scavenger Diamond seems needlessly difficult, and plenty "possible" with the normal med-packs and phases on AoB w/Spear.
- Destroyer Diamond's unique restriction of no adv traits also master traits, so no MAc, MCe, or MFa.  Also, no Badass, DM, Int, WK, or even Juggler.  Like the old days, right?  (Honestly, tell me, I wouldn't know.)  It's not that Destroyer Diamond isn't freaking hard, but I think restricting Iro/TaN is the wrong way to go about it (and also makes it somewhat redundant with Masochist, which is perfectly appropriate).

Just some thoughts after researching for my badge guide.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2010, 16:35 by Game Hunter »
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Re: Badges, badges, badges!
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2010, 13:23 »

I like the badges system, but I think it has to be reworked somewhat. There's only about two or three badges in general for the Hurt Me Plenty difficulty. Of course, you could do the "Beat (Challenge) On Any Difficulty" badges, but there's no real reason to. I think that there should be more encouragement to play through games on the HMP difficulty, to ease the step into attaining Ultra-violence Badges.
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Re: Badges, badges, badges!
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2010, 18:26 »

I like the badges system, but I think it has to be reworked somewhat. There's only about two or three badges in general for the Hurt Me Plenty difficulty. Of course, you could do the "Beat (Challenge) On Any Difficulty" badges, but there's no real reason to. I think that there should be more encouragement to play through games on the HMP difficulty, to ease the step into attaining Ultra-violence Badges.

The Bronze badges are pretty consistent with themselves (at least with the revisions made): Winning the game on standard allows you to play on ITYTD, a MUCH easier version of the game, even when compared to HNTR.  Trust me when I say I managed Strongman Silver's knife-only ITYTD on my first try, twice, whereas AoB has taken quite a few tries each time.  While the second victory was completed when I was already getting used to UV, the first was gained as something to try before even attempting UV seriously.  Making it so that most Bronze badges require you only to complete half of the game on challenges, which force HNTR as a minimum, is at about the same level of difficulty.  I wouldn't mind upping them to "complete Hellgate", as the difficulty tends to separate between the Base and the Hell.  So long as Scavenger and Reaper are changed to something that isn't just "go down the stairs", they'll be on par for Bronze.

Silver is probably the best place to stick some more HMP badges.  I do have a question which relates to the badges: how are the difficulty levels for each badge maintained?  I would argue that AoSg is significantly easier than AoMr, and AoI is easier than AoPu.  Personally (and without trying to remember what the exact values are) this is how I would rate the challenges:

Light Travel - Easy
Shotgunnery - Easy
Marksmanship - Medium
Max Carnage - Medium
Berserk - Hard
Impatience - Hard
Pacifism - Very Hard
Purity - Very Hard
Masochism - Blade
100 - Blade

Kinda also makes me wonder why they're ordered in the way that they are. AoSg is easier due to a shotty buff, and AoB is easier due to the to-hit buff of Brute; the rest are slight deviations based on relative difficulty.  Max Carnage is a weird one, because it's really hard when you're starting out and gets much, much easier by the time you're "good" at the game.  Considering Destroyer Diamond is one of the most attainable badges in the Diamond league (if not THE most, I'd have to check) I think Medium is pretty fair.

Before I digress further, my suggestion is that all Easy/Medium challenges with Silver badges could be replaced with "Complete [challenge] on HMP".  It'd give more room for those badges: the only caveat is what the difficulty gap between HMP and UV really is.  Having made the HNTR/UV gap jump, my only experience in HMP is AoLT and a pistol run for fun.  I'd probably lean towards it feeling more like HNTR than UV, but I'd much rather hear someone who is more attuned with all three.

Speaking of AoLT, my reason for the change in AoLT is that N! has become a LOT harder these days with the speed increase.  Placing any N! difficulty in Gold is pushing it.  Thus, UV/no MAc seemed a reasonable alternative.  Frankly, Runner Gold also needs a slight nerf, like 90%/95% kills.  I've spent many a game trying that one and I barely ever get past the fourth or so floor trying for every single kill.  Revs showing up on floor 3 is nightmarish, and if I could just skip that one and move on, it'd be much more Gold-like.
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Re: Badges, badges, badges!
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2010, 20:17 »

Light Travel - Easy
Shotgunnery - Easy
Marksmanship - Medium
Max Carnage - Medium
Berserk - Hard
Impatience - Hard
Pacifism - Very Hard
Purity - Very Hard
Masochism - Blade
100 - Blade

Mostly agreed, although I would put Impatience at Medium, at most. It just isn't very difficult. Hell's Arena is a lot harder, but it's at the beginning so you don't get set back too far if you die. After that, it's not that much much harder than a standard game, as long as you play carefully and go back to pick up medkits/powerups whenever your health starts to drop. The extra inventory space for ammo and spare armor do a lot to help compensate for the lack of health on demand, too.
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