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[LuckyDee]

MAD tends to help a lot, I've found out. And of course, shooting at as close a range as possible.

[IronBeer]

Is there some trick to doing an AoSh run and not running out of shells?  I'm engaging at close range more often than not, my shotguns have a load of power mods on them, but I keep running out of shells a level or two before the Mastermind.

Do I just need a nano pack?  Or would this all be more ammo-efficent with MAD and an elephant gun?

Not really, just carry a LOT of spare shells- going into Hell with 8 (non-backpacked) stacks and 3 shell boxes is not at all excessive. If you're playing on HNTR or HMP then ammo shouldn't generally be much of a problem.

Also, you don't always need to kill everything on a given floor. Generally you want to, but in a situation like what you described (low ammo a few floors before Spidey) it might be better to just bolt for the stairs and conserve what you have left.

[Orvus]

Quick question: what's Mt. Erebus like? Is it a good idea to go there while doing AoSh?

[Fusilliban]

Perhaps this will finally give me a reason to experiment without my two favorite basics, Finesse and Hellrunner.  I've been trying Shottyhead so far and it's not getting the job done.  Or I need to be on the lookout for Viles next to sergeants and no friggin' lava to eat the ammo.

Thanks all.

[ZicherCZ]

Is there some trick to doing an AoSh run and not running out of shells?  I'm engaging at close range more often than not, my shotguns have a load of power mods on them, but I keep running out of shells a level or two before the Mastermind.

Do I just need a nano pack?  Or would this all be more ammo-efficent with MAD and an elephant gun?

MAD and elephant gun are very ammo-efficient, so that's a good idea.
However, I believe you are just having bad luck. I've done a AoSh UV YAAM before, and never had any serious ammo problems.
Clearing the Arena rewards you with a shell box, Armory contains one as well (killing the Shambler is not needed there), Military base may contain some in the storage half of the level. Visiting those levels is likely to help a lot.

[White Rider]

Army of the Dead, elephant gun and a box of shells should solve most of your ammo problems.
For the majority of 0.9.9.6 I was one of those "tac shotty best thing evar lyk omg" people but now I highly recommend elephant gun over tactical shotgun. If the game gives you an assault shotgun (or alternatively, should you choose to enter and clear out Mortuary/Limbo and find it there), just ignore it.

And same goes for the Jackhammer. Deceptively badass weapon but it chews through ammo like it's no one's business.

Outside of AoSh--or if you have far too many phase devices to care--you can take down the Wall/Containment Area to hopefully mitigate some of the ammo problems, since the backpack increases the maximum capacity of ammo stacks. 70 shells instead of 50 shells is nice, but several stacks goes a long way.

[deathknight1728]

I lost all sanity when I used to get further in this game. I really want to just complete this game as a marine or scout that uses melee for ultimate weapon of choice. I am TERRIBLE at coming up with stat combinations that work so if anyone has a some combinations that work or should work until I reach lvl 10 or the highest you get. Like I said something that works and can be done. I had the idea of playing this game penned when I got further. What killed me was my stats didn't aid me when I got to the spider guys (honestly don't remember name).

Seeing as I regained my sanity maybe someone can post a good build and aid me in losing it again :)

[Sereg]

Go for ITYTD Scout, then, and build toward Blademaster. Grab the guaranteed chainsaw, maybe mod it up a bit, but definitely keep a backup weapon or two, since you're not limited to melee only like an AoB. Brute is your friend, as is Hellrunner, with melee builds.

[White Rider]

I lost all sanity when I used to get further in this game. I really want to just complete this game as a marine or scout that uses melee for ultimate weapon of choice. I am TERRIBLE at coming up with stat combinations that work so if anyone has a some combinations that work or should work until I reach lvl 10 or the highest you get. Like I said something that works and can be done. I had the idea of playing this game penned when I got further. What killed me was my stats didn't aid me when I got to the spider guys (honestly don't remember name).

The spider guys are called Arachnotrons. Everyone hates them. Join us in the hatin'. >:-)
Scout's Blademaster is quite good. This is the build I suggest, and this is assuming you play on ITYTD, which is perfectly fine (though truth be told I haven't played in quite a while):

1. Start with a point in Brute. Clear out Phobos Base Entry and use the shotgun when you take down the former sergeant.
2. Don't descend the red stairs on Phobos-2, because this takes you down to Hell's Arena. While it isn't particularly difficult, it makes Chained Court a little tougher, particularly for builds that focus primarily on melee. At your next level up, get a second point into Brute. This lets you get Berserker on your next level up.
3. Enter Chained Court. Pick up your chainsaw and go berserk. If you haven't already gotten Berserker, do so. Keep your shotgun and plenty of shells around.

4. Next order of business is to get the remaining traits that let you use Blademaster, which are 2 points into Hellrunner, 3 points into Brute, and 1 point into Berserker. Getting two points into Hellrunner is probably a better idea than getting Brute 3 immediately after getting Berserker. Though you might want to read up on how dodging and running work.

I don't really want to say much more than that, as the above steps will at least get you started.
Don't feel pressured to take every red staircase you see, it's not required to clear x number of special stages to get to the last boss or whatever.
Sometimes a build works, and sometimes it doesn't, it just depends on the situation and how badly the RNG has decided to screw you over on your particular run.
Yell some obscenities, flip a table, take a breather (or a drink), do whatever you need to do to calm your nerves and then try again.

[Sereg]

The spider guys are called Arachnotrons. Everyone hates them. Join us in the hatin'. >:-)

Spoiler: Yep. I really, *really* hate Arachnotrons. Especially the nightmare variety. (click to show/hide)

--------------------------------------------------------------
 DoomRL (0.9.9.7) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------

 Nathan, level 25 Cyberdemon Mjr General Marine,
 let an nightmare arachnotron get him on level 312 of Hell.
 He survived 2215068 turns and scored 4999703 points.
 He played for 12 hours, 7 minutes and 16 seconds.
 He wasn't afraid to be hurt plenty.

 He killed 11435 out of 11450 hellspawn. (99%)
 He was a real killing machine...
 He was an Archangel of 666!

 He saved himself 5 times.

-- Special levels --------------------------------------------

  Levels generated : 0
  Levels visited   : 0
  Levels completed : 0

-- Awards ----------------------------------------------------

  UAC Star (gold cluster)
  Experience Cross

-- Graveyard -------------------------------------------------

  ###########################################################
  ###########=#########.##......##.....##########.###########
  ########===#########...#....A#......}...########.#.########
  #######====########..............==.......######...########
  ########====#######....|......}.#====.....#.####..#########
  #######==#..A.####.=..=#.........=.=.........##..##########
  #=####=##....#..|.==.....^.A.;..#.==.....#..###..##########
  ##====###.....#.....|=...|.A......==.....######....########
  ###==##.......#..=..X............==.......#####...###A#####
  ####...#......A..=.......+......==......#\####.....#....###
  ######...A###.A..=...........A.===......######....#...#..##
  ######..>.####...#.............==......######A.....#..#####
  #####....#####.......|........=.==.....###.#.A....#.#######
  ####......#.#A..A.....=.=....=...==....##=.........########
  #####...............|.#=.=....====..#..===#........########
  ######................A#===.#.=====###...=#...}##...#######
  ######^..................=..##A===#=.#..#==...##...########
  #######...####....=......#####.==...#.##===#=.###.#########
  #######....###...#.=}...######.===#....###==.###.##########
  ###########################################################

-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------

  Health 0/60   Experience 2983216/25
  ToHit Ranged +0  ToHit Melee +8  ToDmg Ranged +4  ToDmg Melee +16

-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------

  Class : Marine

    Finesse          (Level 3)
    Hellrunner       (Level 3)
    Son of a bitch   (Level 4)
    Reloader         (Level 2)
    Brute            (Level 4)
    Berserker        (Level 1)
    Dodgemaster      (Level 1)
    Whizkid          (Level 2)
    Badass           (Level 2)
    Triggerhappy     (Level 2)
    Ammochain        (Level 1)

  SoB->SoB->TH->TH->Rel->Rel->MAc->Fin->Fin->WK->WK->Bad->Bru->Bru->Ber->Bad->HR->HR->DM->Fin->Bru->SoB->HR->SoB->Bru->

-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------

    [a] [ Armor      ]   Malek's Armor [0/3] (0%)
    [b] [ Weapon     ]   laser rifle (1d7)x9 [31/40] (F2N1S1T1)
    [c] [ Boots      ]   Nyarlaptotep's Boots [6/6] (100%)
    [d] [ Prepared   ]   ripper (6d6) (T)

-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------

    [a] super shotgun (10d4)x2 [2/2] (P2)
    [b] nuclear BFG 9000 (8d6) [68/68] (B2)
    [c] napalm launcher (7d7) [1/1] (B3)
    [d] phaseshift armor [4] (AOP)
    [e] plasma shield [0/0] (100%)
    [f] large med-pack
    [g] large med-pack
    [h] large med-pack
    [i] large med-pack
    [j] large med-pack
    [k] large med-pack
    [l] large med-pack
    [m] homing phase device
    [n] homing phase device
    [o] homing phase device
    [p] agility mod pack
    [q] agility mod pack
    [r] hatred skull
    [s] hatred skull
    [t] Hell Staff
    [u] phaseshift boots [4/4] (100%) (A)

-- Resistances -----------------------------------------------

    Acid       - internal 0%    torso 0%    feet 30% 
    Fire       - internal 0%    torso 0%    feet 100%

-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------

    378 former humans
    888 former sergeants
    1387 former captains
    110 imps
    66 demons
    871 lost souls
    153 cacodemons
    433 hell knights
    1723 barons of hell
    507 arachnotrons
    17 former commandos
    138 pain elementals
    855 revenants
    1149 mancubi
    1205 arch-viles
    68 nightmare imps
    333 nightmare cacodemons
    359 nightmare demons
    215 nightmare arachnotrons
    90 nightmare arch-viles
    1 elite former human
    29 elite former captains
    35 elite former commandos
    209 bruiser brothers
    85 shamblers
    51 lava elemental
    41 agony elementals
    39 Cyberdemons

-- History ---------------------------------------------------

  On level 7 he assembled a tactical shotgun!
  On level 12 he found the Hellwave Pack!
  On level 19 he assembled a nanofiber armor!
  On level 25 he assembled a hyperblaster!
  On level 25 he assembled a assault rifle!
  On level 27 he assembled a cerberus boots!
  He sounded the alarm on level 32!
  On level 33 he found the Acid Spitter!
  On level 38 he stumbled into a nightmare demon cave!
  On level 38 he found the Medical Powerarmor!
  On level 39 he stumbled into a nightmare arachnotron cave!
  On level 39 he assembled a cerberus armor!
  Level 40 was a hard nut to crack!
  On level 42 he found the Jackhammer!
  He sounded the alarm on level 43!
  On level 49 he assembled a chainsword!
  On level 55 he stumbled into a nightmare arachnotron cave!
  On level 59 he stumbled into a complex full of mancubi!
  On level 60 he stumbled into a complex full of arch-viles!
  Level 60 was a hard nut to crack!
  He sounded the alarm on level 61!
  On level 63 he found the Malek's Armor!
  On level 67 he found the Hell Staff!
  On level 72 he stumbled into a nightmare cacodemon cave!
  On level 73 he was targeted for extermination!
  Level 74 blasted him with an unholy atmosphere!
  On level 78 he stumbled into a nightmare cacodemon cave!
  On level 83 he was targeted for extermination!
  On level 88 he ran for his life from acid!
  On level 92 he was bombarded!
  On level 96 he stumbled into a nightmare demon cave!
  Level 98 was a hard nut to crack!
  On level 101 he stumbled into a nightmare arachnotron cave!
  Level 104 blasted him with an unholy atmosphere!
  On level 105 he ran for his life from lava!
  On level 108 he stumbled into a nightmare cacodemon cave!
  On level 110 he stumbled into a complex full of revenants!
  On level 111 he found the Anti-Freak Jackal!
  On level 112 he encountered an armed nuke!
  On level 118 he found the Railgun!
  On level 119 he stumbled into a complex full of mancubi!
  On level 119, hell froze over!
  On level 120 he stumbled into a lava elemental cave!
  On level 124 he stumbled into a complex full of mancubi!
  On level 126 he was bombarded!
  On level 134 he ran for his life from acid!
  On level 134 he found the Nyarlaptotep's Boots!
  On level 136 he ran for his life from lava!
  He sounded the alarm on level 137!
  On level 138 he stumbled into a nightmare arachnotron cave!
  On level 142 he stumbled into a nightmare demon cave!
  On level 143 he was targeted for extermination!
  On level 144 he assembled a ripper!
  On level 148 he encountered an armed nuke!
  On level 149, hell froze over!
  On level 155 he ran for his life from acid!
  On level 159, hell froze over!
  On level 170 he found the Shielded Armor!
  On level 174 he ran for his life from lava!
  He sounded the alarm on level 177!
  He sounded the alarm on level 178!
  Level 180 was a hard nut to crack!
  Level 181 was a hard nut to crack!
  On level 182, hell froze over!
  On level 189 he encountered an armed nuke!
  On level 189 he found the Enviroboots!
  On level 190 he stumbled into a nightmare cacodemon cave!
  On level 194 he encountered an armed nuke!
  Level 195 was a hard nut to crack!
  On level 208 he stumbled into a nightmare demon cave!
  Level 209 was a hard nut to crack!
  On level 219 he stumbled into a complex full of arch-viles!
  On level 220 he found the Necroarmor!
  On level 222 he stumbled into a nightmare demon cave!
  On level 226 he ran for his life from lava!
  He sounded the alarm on level 228!
  On level 231 he stumbled into a lava elemental cave!
  On level 235, hell froze over!
  On level 239 he was walking in fire!
  Level 240 blasted him with an unholy atmosphere!
  Level 241 blasted him with an unholy atmosphere!
  Level 243 was a hard nut to crack!
  On level 258 he found the Butcher's Cleaver!
  On level 261 he stumbled into a nightmare cacodemon cave!
  On level 266 he encountered an armed nuke!
  On level 268 he encountered an armed nuke!
  On level 269 he stumbled into a complex full of mancubi!
  On level 271 he found the Frag Shotgun!
  On level 272, hell froze over!
  Level 274 was a hard nut to crack!
  On level 277, hell froze over!
  On level 284, hell froze over!
  On level 286 he ran for his life from lava!
  On level 287 he stumbled into a nightmare cacodemon cave!
  Level 289 blasted him with an unholy atmosphere!
  On level 292 he stumbled into a nightmare demon cave!
  He sounded the alarm on level 295!
  Level 300 was a hard nut to crack!
  On level 305 he ran for his life from lava!
  On level 306 he stumbled into a agony elemental cave!
  On level 312 he stumbled into a nightmare arachnotron cave!
  On level 312 he finally let an nightmare arachnotron get him.

-- Messages --------------------------------------------------

 missile hits the nightmare arachnotron. The missile hits the nightmare
 arachnotron. The missile hits the nightmare arachnotron. The missile hits the
 nightmare arachnotron. The missile hits the nightmare arachnotron. The
 missile hits the nightmare arachnotron. You are hit! You are hit! You are
 hit! You are hit! You are hit! You are hit! You are hit! You are hit! You are
 hit! You are hit! You are hit! You are hit! You are hit! You are hit! You are
 hit! You are hit! Your Malek's Armor is damaged! You are hit!
 Chain fire ( full ) -- Choose target or abort...
 You see : a nightmare arachnotron (almost dead) | blood | [ m ]ore
 Targeting canceled.
 You use a large med-pack. You feel fully healed. You are hit! You are hit!
 You are hit! You are hit! You are hit! You are hit! You are hit! You are hit!
 You are hit! You are hit! You are hit! The missile hits the nightmare
 arachnotron. You are hit! You are hit! You are hit! You are hit! You are hit!
 You are hit! You are hit! You are hit! Your Malek's Armor is damaged! You
 die!... Press <Enter>...

-- General ---------------------------------------------------

 1901 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
 1736 of those were killed.
 5 of those were killed by something unknown.
 35 didn't read the thermonuclear bomb manual.
 And 93 couldn't handle the stress and committed a stupid suicide.

 32 souls destroyed the Mastermind...
 6 sacrificed itself for the good of mankind.
 26 killed the bitch and survived.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Edit: So, in the spirit of this thread, are you supposed to be able to get Explorer/Conqueror from ITYTD? Feeling dejected after the above spoliered mortem, I gave the ITYTD Blademaster run outlined above a go to boost my morale. Lo and behold, in my awards list are Explorer and Conqueror(my first ever), despite many of the special levels being missing(including Mortuary/Limbo, no YAFW for me >.<). This seems odd to me - if I knew I could have cheesed those two badges, I'd have done so ages ago =P I guess technically the achievement(visit/clear all generated levels) applies to ITYTD, since I did complete every level that showed up, but... that's not all of them =P feels a bit cheap(though of course that's never stopped me before, lol).

Spoiler: For reference: (click to show/hide)

--------------------------------------------------------------
 DoomRL (0.9.9.7) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------

 Nathan, level 10 Cyberdemon Mjr General Scout,
 defeated the Mastermind at the City of Dis.
 He survived 77002 turns and scored 46341 points.
 He played for 50 minutes and 35 seconds.
 He was too young to die!

 He killed 424 out of 424 hellspawn. (100%)
 This ass-kicking marine killed all of them!

-- Special levels --------------------------------------------

  Levels generated : 7
  Levels visited   : 7
  Levels completed : 7

-- Awards ----------------------------------------------------

  Medal of Prejudice
  Explorer Badge
  Conqueror Badge
  Hell Champion Medal

-- Graveyard -------------------------------------------------

  ###########################################################
  #######................................####################
  ######...............####...............###################
  #####.......####.....####.....####.......##################
  ####........####.....####.....####........#################
  ###.........####.....####.....####.........################
  ##..........####..............####..........###############
  #............................................##############
  #....####............................####....##############
  #...&####............................####....##############
  #....####............................####....##############
  #....####.....................X......####....##############
  #..............................%.............##############
  ##..........####..............####..........###############
  ###.........####.....####.....####.........################
  ####........####.....####.....####........#################
  #####.......####.....####.....####.......##################
  ######...............####...............###################
  #######................................####################
  ###########################################################

-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------

  Health 29/50   Experience 46148/10
  ToHit Ranged +0  ToHit Melee +6  ToDmg Ranged +0  ToDmg Melee +9

-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------

  Class : Scout

    Finesse          (Level 2)
    Hellrunner       (Level 2)
    Brute            (Level 3)
    Berserker        (Level 1)
    Dodgemaster      (Level 1)
    Blademaster      (Level 1)

  Bru->Bru->Ber->HR->HR->Bru->MBm->DM->Fin->Fin->

-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------

    [a] [ Armor      ]   red armor [4] (O)
    [b] [ Weapon     ]   piercing chainsaw (4d7)
    [c] [ Boots      ]   plasteel boots [2/2] (100%) (A)
    [d] [ Prepared   ]   assault shotgun (7d3) [6/6]

-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------

    [a] plasma rifle (1d7)x6 [40/40] (A1)
    [b] BFG 9000 (10d6) [130/130] (B1)
    [c] shotgun shell (x70)
    [d] shotgun shell (x64)
    [e] shotgun shell (x70)
    [f] power cell (x70)
    [g] power cell (x70)
    [h] power cell (x70)
    [i] power cell (x70)
    [j] power cell (x70)
    [k] power cell (x70)
    [l] power cell (x70)
    [m] large med-pack
    [n] large med-pack
    [o] large med-pack
    [p] large med-pack
    [q] large med-pack
    [r] phase device
    [s] homing phase device
    [t] envirosuit pack
    [u] lava element
    [v] Arena Master's Staff

-- Resistances -----------------------------------------------

    Bullet     - internal 60%   torso 60%   feet 60% 
    Melee      - internal 60%   torso 60%   feet 60% 
    Shrapnel   - internal 60%   torso 60%   feet 60% 
    Acid       - internal 85%   torso 85%   feet 95% 
    Fire       - internal 85%   torso 95%   feet 95% 
    Plasma     - internal 60%   torso 60%   feet 60% 

-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------

    72 former humans
    48 former sergeants
    5 former captains
    62 imps
    36 demons
    119 lost souls
    15 cacodemons
    26 hell knights
    10 barons of hell
    9 arachnotrons
    5 former commandos
    5 pain elementals
    2 revenants
    3 mancubi
    1 arch-vile
    2 bruiser brothers
    1 lava elemental
    1 Cyberdemon
    1 Spider Mastermind
    1 Arena Master

-- History ---------------------------------------------------

  He started his journey on the surface of Phobos.
  On level 2 he entered Hell's Arena.
  He left the Arena as a champion!
  On level 5 he stormed the Chained Court.
  On level 5 he found the Arena Master's Staff!
  He defeated the Hell Arena Master!
  On level 7 he sneaked into the Phobos Lab.
  On level 7 he assembled a tactical shotgun!
  He broke through the lab.
  On level 8 he encountered the Phobos Anomaly.
  On level 11 he assembled a piercing blade!
  On level 11 he witnessed the Wall.
  He massacred the evil behind the Wall!
  On level 12 he found the City of Skulls.
  He wiped out the City of Skulls.
  He sounded the alarm on level 14!
  On level 14 he ventured into the Spider's Lair.
  He cleared the Lair, kickin' serious spider ass!
  On level 16 he found the Tower of Babel!
  On level 22 he arrived at Mt. Erebus.
  On level 22 he found the Necroarmor!
  He managed to raise Mt. Erebus completely!
  Then at last he found Dis!
  On level 24 he finally defeated the Mastermind.

-- Messages --------------------------------------------------

 You hit the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind flinched! You need to
 taste blood!
 You need to taste blood!
 You hit the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind flinched! You need to
 taste blood!
 You hit the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind flinched! You need to
 taste blood!
 You need to taste blood!
 You hit the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind flinched! You're going
 berserk! You need to taste blood!
 You hit the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind flinched! You need to
 taste blood!
 You need to taste blood!
 You hit the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind dies. Congratulations!
 You defeated the Spider Mastermind! Press <Enter>...
 You feel relatively safe now. Next!

-- General ---------------------------------------------------

 1902 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
 1736 of those were killed.
 5 of those were killed by something unknown.
 35 didn't read the thermonuclear bomb manual.
 And 93 couldn't handle the stress and committed a stupid suicide.

 33 souls destroyed the Mastermind...
 6 sacrificed itself for the good of mankind.
 27 killed the bitch and survived.

--------------------------------------------------------------

[singalen]

Giftdropping is also something hard to deduce by oneself.

[White Rider]

Edit: So, in the spirit of this thread, are you supposed to be able to get Explorer/Conqueror from ITYTD? Feeling dejected after the above spoliered mortem, I gave the ITYTD Blademaster run outlined above a go to boost my morale. Lo and behold, in my awards list are Explorer and Conqueror(my first ever), despite many of the special levels being missing(including Mortuary/Limbo, no YAFW for me >.<). This seems odd to me - if I knew I could have cheesed those two badges, I'd have done so ages ago =P I guess technically the achievement(visit/clear all generated levels) applies to ITYTD, since I did complete every level that showed up, but... that's not all of them =P feels a bit cheap(though of course that's never stopped me before, lol).

Hell's Armory/Deimos Lab, Unholy Cathedral, Vaults, and Mortuary/Limbo never appear on ITYTD. They are simply never generated, therefore are not included in the overall generated special levels count. If you enter all the special stages, you get Explorer, and if you clear all the special stages, then you get Conqueror.

Spoiler: Opinions... (click to show/hide)

Personally, I think Mortuary/Limbo should be generated on ITYTD. The sooner people know about that hellhole before progressing to HNTR difficulty, the better.

[Sereg]

Spoiler: Opinions... (click to show/hide)

Personally, I think Mortuary/Limbo should be generated on ITYTD. The sooner people know about that hellhole before progressing to HNTR difficulty, the better.

Spoiler: Response to spoilered opinions (click to show/hide)

I suspect it's not included because it would make full wins too easy. For example, I personally would farm ITYTD JCs for Apostle rank, the way I farmed AAo666 Cyberdemons for that rank.

[White Rider]

Spoiler: Response to spoilered opinions (click to show/hide)

I suspect it's not included because it would make full wins too easy. For example, I personally would farm ITYTD JCs for Apostle rank, the way I farmed AAo666 Cyberdemons for that rank.

Oh you and your cheesing and farming.
YAFW should not be a concern for people learning how to play ITYTD. YAAM, maybe. But definitely not FWs.

[Sereg]

Well, sure, but it's gonna come up anyway. The first thing any player with a nuke and an invulnerability is going to do when he reaches the Mastermind is save himself the trouble of the fight by safely clearing the floor with the nuke, whether he knows about YAFW or not.

It's possible that most players in that position won't know about the nuke BFG active, but that's the only thing preventing it, I think.

I agree with you, I'd be happy to see more special levels in ITYTD, since it is a learning level. I just think I know the reason that particular one isn't there... and it's players like me, lol.