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[Potman]

The thing about monsters respawning is that it breaks special levels. In Hell's Arena, at least, I could never destroy even the first wave because the monsters kept coming back.

That probably confirms it as a bug: it'd be a nice enough of an official feature, yes, but it should be possible to complete levels that require clearing up everything.

[Pricklyman]

It's not a bug...

However I don't disagree with what he is saying about needing to clear Special levels. You shouldn't have to be a N! god with corpse disposal skills to be able to complete Hell's Arena. Perhaps provisions to exclude special levels from the AoDark respawning?

[Klear]

Hmm.. I think that it's good that you can try corpse disposal in AoD before you dare trying N!. On the other hand, clearing the arena is a guaranteed way to get the early rocket launcher which is the simplest way to dispose corpses...

[Pricklyman]

True, practice is good, but to clear it, I don't think you should be required to know it to clear the Arena on AoD.

Anyway, I'm going to stop posting because eventually...I'll say something stupid...

[Ashannar]

The thing about monsters respawning is that it breaks special levels. In Hell's Arena, at least, I could never destroy even the first wave because the monsters kept coming back.

That probably confirms it as a bug: it'd be a nice enough of an official feature, yes, but it should be possible to complete levels that require clearing up everything.

You're joking, right? It's very possible to clean up Hell's Arena. There's even a badge to beat Hell's Arena on N!, and many people have obtained it. Use corpse stacking and caco projectiles to clear it.

[Potman]

You're joking, right? It's very possible to clean up Hell's Arena. There's even a badge to beat Hell's Arena on N!, and many people have obtained it. Use corpse stacking and caco projectiles to clear it.

I was talking about the AoD respawn, not the N! one. On AoD it's much faster, sometimes even instantaneous, and even if I ever briefly managed to kill them all, the game doesn't count it like that. I've finished Hell's Arena on N!, myself, and know that it can work just fine: it just doesn't on AoD.

[Pricklyman]

You're joking, right? It's very possible to clean up Hell's Arena. There's even a badge to beat Hell's Arena on N!, and many people have obtained it. Use corpse stacking and caco projectiles to clear it.

Also, I know it's a challenge mode, but if you're not playing N!, you shouldn't be forced to employ advanced tactics. What's the point of having lower difficulties if AoD just becomes AoN!

Maybe that's what we should do, just call it AoN! and tell people to never play it until they are uber-leet at advanced corpse-stacking and clearing tactics...

EDIT: Yes I know I said I wouldn't post...go figure...

[Ander Hammer]

Obviously we need to remove corpse-stacking.

It's true that AoD is kind of AoN!, but without those base traits in place, there's no Nightmare Squared mode (N! AoD), and masochists or God Hands (or is there a difference?) will have one less super-hard option in the game.

In all seriousness, at this point I'd kind of like to hear a dev's thoughts on the matter.

Also, I know it's a challenge mode, but if you're not playing N!, you shouldn't be forced to employ advanced tactics.

Emphasis mine. Why not?

[Ashannar]

I was talking about the AoD respawn, not the N! one. On AoD it's much faster, sometimes even instantaneous, and even if I ever briefly managed to kill them all, the game doesn't count it like that. I've finished Hell's Arena on N!, myself, and know that it can work just fine: it just doesn't on AoD.

Ah, sorry. I've played both N! and AoD, but not extensively. I didn't know they had different spawn rates.

[Pricklyman]

@ Ander Hammer

I admit my opinion may be a little slanted as to the communities view as a whole, however eh, still my opinion. (Also, did I not say that I would say something stupid, right, right! :P)

But anyway, the reason (in my opinion) N! exists is to create a system similar to the original Doom, where monsters respawned. The purpose of the challenge modes is to add specific forms of challenge, e.g. you're only allowed to use pistols. (AoMr)

If I decide one merry day to play a challenge called Angel of Darkness, I do not believe that I should be subject to N! standards if I wish to play on HNTR, HMP or UV. Although I admit that the respawning is just part of the challenge, there are other parts that must be considered. For example, it is not compulsory to clear levels in a standard game of AoD. It is however in Hell's Arena. The player must then employ N! style tactics to corpse-stack, etc etc. If he/she has never played N!, he/she is going to have more trouble than what Hell's Arena should be, if not being played on N!.

Now don't get me wrong at all, I'm not knocking those who can commit to those tactics, however it's my personal belief that AoD should not be as harshly subject to the conditions imposed on N! players (respawning) on levels where you are required to employ the tactics. If you're just on a level, trying to clear it, then the respawning challenge is something which is more of the "darkness" motif, not knowing where the next bad guy is going to pop out from. However in an arena setting, the challenge is not parallel to the challenge mode in question.

I also further admit that "employ advanced tactics" isn't the right contextual saying, I hope the actual meaning of my (properly used) words is evident in the above paragraph. (Perhaps, "if you are not playing N!, you shouldn't have to employ N! tactics." is a better way to put it)

I also note that this is not a personal/group/any form of attack against anyone, but someone asked me a question, and I am doing my earnest to explain my point of view. Apologies if anyone takes/took offence.

[Klear]

You know you can flee from the arena? There's nothing forcing you to finish every special level.

Besides, I have finished AoD long time ago and I'm still struggling with just UV. AoD is nowhere near N! difficulty (that is, unless you are playing AoD on N!...

[Potman]

You know you can flee from the arena? There's nothing forcing you to finish every special level.

Of course, but it should be possible to win it, at least in theory.

Besides, I have finished AoD long time ago and I'm still struggling with just UV. AoD is nowhere near N! difficulty (that is, unless you are playing AoD on N!...

It's not. AoD, even with monsters respawning, is nowhere close to N! in terms of difficulty. Indeed, respawning in itself is not a problem: does it not merely add to the tension and atmosphere when monsters constantly emerge from the shadows, even when you felt briefly safe? If the respawn rate was slower, and didn't happen to any corpse you were looking at, and it was possible to clear Hell's Arena without employing advanced N! tactics, I'd have no problem with it.

[Deathwind]

it can be done without corpse stacking, it just takes alot of shells as you need to keep rekilling the same monsters.

[shark20061]

it can be done without corpse stacking, it just takes alot of shells as you need to keep rekilling the same monsters.

I don't know about that, because the chance of something respawning increases with the amount of time spent on the level.

[AlterAsc]

You say hard, but remember about double EXP rates.I played AoD a bit on N! and getting lvl6(and Cateye) on Arena(yeah, on HA that spawned on lvl3) is so fun.Actually it makes it even a bit easier in some cases than standard games.
Though i agree, that completing HA with respawing is quite frustrating, unless you know some tricks.
And doing it without destroying corpses requires some serious luck.