DRL > Discussion
dual vs. single wield pistols? (and a couple random questions)
Klear:
I think dualgun build is easier for new players. You don't have to go for any of the masters if you don't want to. Extra SoG and/or EE, SoB, Finesse can make you a killing machine even without master traits. It's all about shooting incredible ammounts of bullets extremely fast.
In any case - if shotguns knock you out of the corner, you are doing something wrong. Stuff outside your sight range has additional 50% chance to miss, but it's worth shooting the few bullets into the dark if you know there is something there. As for Shambler, kill him as fast as you can, cornershooting if possible, but in any case keep the bullets pouring. That's never done me no harm. And speedloader is definitely worth it in the beginning. It's quite possible to go through the game with just it (or dual).
If you get killed before you can get your master, saving mods isn't probably that improtant.
punkbohemian:
In the 10 minutes since my last post, I just got killed at level 3 (my lowest level kill ever), mainly from getting pelted by shotguns that were outside of my visual range. Do sarges have a longer visual range than me? I spent the entire time moving in such a way to be in a good corner shot position, and I'm only playing on Normal difficulty, and I get iced when I'm only Level 3.
--- Quote ---I think dualgun build is easier for new players. You don't have to go for any of the masters if you don't want to. Extra SoG and/or EE, SoB, Finesse can make you a killing machine even without master traits. It's all about shooting incredible ammounts of bullets extremely fast.
--- End quote ---
Come to think of it, I think SoB might offset the damage penalty that comes from DG against armored opponents (compared to MSs). However, while you don't have to deal with masters, I would think it takes more traits in the long run. Sure, it only takes 3 traits to get to DG (versus 7 for MSs), but when you add in the SoBs, extra SoG, and Finesse (which you have to do for Whiz Kid) or EEs, you're passing MSs easily.
--- Quote ---In any case - if shotguns knock you out of the corner, you are doing something wrong.
--- End quote ---
Clearly, I am. I've read the guides on it, though. And, I'm doing what the guides say.
--- Quote ---And speedloader is definitely worth it in the beginning.
--- End quote ---
Really, how? I just don't understand. It's only good for combat reloading, of which I do rarely, if at all. Otherwise it's an ordinary pistol.
skarczew:
I find MSs a bit harder than Dualgunner builds. The second gun simply doubles your damage.
One could say that 3*SoG is better than 2*SoG and DG when it comes to ammo efficiency, but the latter is better for DPS ... and DPS is the thing that you need.
Oh, and instead of typical weak "dev made" :P trait builds you can try my version of glass cannon (it is somewhere in mortems now).
As for Shambler, with a good positioning and decent build you can kill him without getting any damage.
Klear:
--- Quote from: punkbohemian on April 02, 2012, 08:45 ---In the 10 minutes since my last post, I just got killed at level 3 (my lowest level kill ever), mainly from getting pelted by shotguns that were outside of my visual range. Do sarges have a longer visual range than me? I spent the entire time moving in such a way to be in a good corner shot position, and I'm only playing on Normal difficulty, and I get iced when I'm only Level 3.
--- End quote ---
Standard enemies have the same sight range as you, cyberdemon sees farther and melee enemies (lost souls/demons) see less.
In any case, if you encounter a sergeant who shoots you and knocks you back out of sight, do not approach him again. Either shoot him blindly (and let him come to you) or retreat behind cover and he will follow you. If you hide behind a door (diagonally from the door), he will enter the doorway and be in melee range, which means that he won't be able to shoot and will only use a weak melee attack that is additionally prone to miss.
You can also lure formers by giftdropping: eg. drop a medkit in a doorway and stand aside so that the enemy will come into your melee range. Formers and knights/barons (btw, for dealing with barons this is not the best idea) will go to and pick up all medkits, phase devices and a single armour unless they know where you are, so you can use all of the above to lure them to you. Then give them a faceful of bullets/shotgun shells from point blank range.
BTW, you obviously have to wait until a former wanders nearby the lure and comes for it, so in case you don't know, you can wait using the run command and then wait. The waiting will stop when an enemy appears, or after some time.
One more thing - learn to use the pistol's alternate fire, which is aimed shot. Until you get eagle eye, it can be used to get an almost certain hit at long distances, though the shot takes more time so the enemies have longer to retaliate. If you are facing a single former/imp and you already hurt him, you can use it to almost guarantee the kill. Once you have dualgunner, you can use aimed shot to dispatch weak enemies in a single shot at long ranges (and if you are facing single enemies, i can't hurt much to use it in mid-close range as well, just to be sure).
punkbohemian:
Ok, so now I'm thinking either:
SoG>SoG>DG>EE>EE>Int>Int>WK>WK
for a Tech
or
SoG>SoG>DG>Int>Int>Fin>Fin>Wk>Wk
for a Scout
btw, does the scout's speed bonus apply to all actions or just moving?
I'm thinking the scout might be the stronger option especially if the speed bonus applies to attacks. First, you get Int sooner. Second, I think Fin might be stronger for pistols than EE. Fin2 is 30% more lead in the air, while EE2 is just 17% more accurate at best, less so at close range or if you're aiming.
I wonder which is more valuable with either build, SoG3 or SoB. SoB is basically just SoG, but without the speed bonus (though SoG only applies to pistols), right?
In any event, after this, I'm not sure if I'd be better off going for MGK (HR>HR>DM>GTK), maxing out SoG and maybe getting some SoB (SoG>SoG>SoG) for max damage potential, or maybe even shooting for Badass (TaN>TaN>Bad) for endurance. I'm guessing the SoG approach is stronger since with Int2, I should need to be dodging much, but I don't really know.
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