DRL > Requests For Features

Placement of Hell's Arena Entrance

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skarczew:

--- Quote from: Game Hunter on April 17, 2012, 14:10 ---Regardless of which floor it goes on, I really do want to remove the level range, and the reason is simply because it should reduce rerolling games.

--- End quote ---
Think about people restarting the game only to get certain items, too (mods on AoMr to make speedloader, etc).

Ander Hammer:
First special level you'll hit in the game, first special level a new player is ever going to see... I don't see a problem with it being a bit less than hard.

Don't make Hell's Arena a gimme, but don't make it (more of) a deathtrap, either. It's already enough that it frequently spawns you in vision of two lost souls, a demon, and a caco with no nearby pillars (which is programmed right into the level) and your most powerful weapon the vanilla shotgun.

I much prefer the chocolate shotgun, myself.

Klear:
Hmm.. on the other hand, I remember when I was new to DoomRL, that completing the first round of the arena gave me great satifsaction, I was delighted to beat the second wave, and I knew not to try my luck with the final round.
Since you can leave the arena when things get too rough to you, I don't think it's such a newbie deterrent.

Creaphis:
If Hell's Arena is going to be fixed to a dungeon level I'd vote for level 3. Speaking as a fairly new player myself, hell's arena is the place where I first figured out the basics of cornershooting and it's good to let the new player get at least a small trait advantage to help them out as they learn this "advanced" skill. It definitely doesn't need to be a "hard" special level as it is the first one we see in the game. Does it really deserve to be the defining moment of every game of DoomRL? Save the real challenges for later levels. The special levels that the player sees the least often should be the hardest, so that they'll also be the most interesting and memorable - the "climaxes" of the game.

As for the specific case of Angel of Berserk, one little change that would go a long way in making the early game and hell's arena survivable would be to make brute's accuracy bonus also improve the throwing accuracy of combat knives. Right now their accuracy without eagle eye is 50% at point blank and probably 25% at full range. If this was boosted to 91% and 75% by a couple ranks of brute then you could reliably chip away at the health of demons and cacodemons before they reach you and end up saving lots of health in the long run. I don't think this is against the spirit of the challenge as thowing knives are a melee weapon, they have a very limited range and damage potential, and brute already improves the damage of thrown knives anyway.

Another thing that could be clarified is the effect that running has on melee damage. I've often found that I can kill a demon in the same number of turns when I'm running as when I'm not. If melee damage is being penalized in some kind of unintuitive way, why not just remove the penalty entirely?

GinDiamond:

--- Quote from: Game Hunter on April 17, 2012, 14:10 ---
Also keep in mind that, as I said before, these changes are basically proposals and are by no means decided upon. If it turns out that placing Hell's Arena too early makes it and the rest of the game far harder, I have no qualms moving it elsewhere. However, I would like to set up Hell's Arena as a sort of training ground, by which players can test themselves to see whether or not they play the game with a certain degree to skill. The cleanest way to do this is to give them as little advantage as possible entering the level. With this in mind, I have plans to add some extra shells/bullets strewn about the arena on earlier waves, so players aren't screwed because they couldn't find enough ammunition prior to entering. I'm fairly certain that all difficulties clearing the first two floors will reach clvl2 at the least (ITYTD might be one or two kills away), which is more than enough to prepare your traits for whatever build you've focused yourself on. (AoB is a weird exception, and I am very open to the possibility of specifically moving the dlvl in that case to acommodate.)

I'll be specific about the reward reduction as currently changed: I removed the cells entirely and dropped the rocket count to three stacks (as opposed to nine). Back when I would play regularly, Hell's Arena ensured me just about all the rockets I needed to win the game, and this always struck me as too much of a good thing. With this, you have "some rockets", but you'll still need to scavenge for more (and prevents total rocket-spamming on Unchained Court). Concerns regarding The Wall need not apply, as things will change to that level such that you don't actually require rockets to complete it. (It'll still be plenty interesting enough.)
Kornel's the person to ask about beta releases. In theory, we could maybe make a "content patch" beta that has changes exclusive to gameplay additions and rebalances (that are either already in the repo or close to it). There's still a ton more work to be done in other areas, however, so you'll have to be patient.

--- End quote ---

So, the Wall is getting a major revamp in 0.9.9.7?
Will it now be somewhat survivable for AoSh, AoB, and AoMr?

Oh, and the whole reason I die in Angel of Berserk is because of Hell's Arena.
What exactly kills me is the demons.
Their attack damage is just too ridiculous to fend off with an unmodded combat knife and a green armor (HNTR).
Their speed is also of issue, because you don't exactly jump at Hellrunner in a melee game, you go Brute-->Brute-->Berserker--->Brute or Hellrunner-->Hellrunner-->Hellrunner if you didn't get it already twice-->Blademaster (I'm trying to do a Scout run right now)-->whateverthehellyouwanttowasteyourexperienceonbecauseyouarealreadyprettymuchimortalagainstthesmallerenemies

Could you either:
increase the chance of a bulk/power mod showing up on Lvl2 for AoB or:
somehow nerfing the waves on Hell's Arena *by only a little* so it is more survivable on AoB?

Thanks!

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