DRL > Requests For Features
Placement of Hell's Arena Entrance
Matt_S:
--- Quote from: Game Hunter on April 17, 2012, 09:57 ---However, I took the position that Hell's Arena is meant to be a hard special level, so I placed it (for the time being) on the second floor rather than the third. At the same time (and also for the time being) I reduced the rewards for completing the level.
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I'm okay with the level 2 placement, but reduced rewards? You already mentioned removing the cells in another topic, which isn't a big deal I don't think. Will we be losing the blue armor and large medpack as well?
--- Quote ---The reasons for these things can't be detailed without spoiling some new features:
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Ooh, secret new features?
--- Quote ---Suffice it to say that I want to make the decision to enter certain special levels a real choice, rather than a nigh-guaranteed "I will come out with more than what I brought in" thought process.
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Will Halls of Carnage get a difficulty bump as well? It's rather underwhelming considering its name. Also, only cowards skip special levels >:)
--- Quote ---This sort of stuff, however, is greatly influenced by beta testing and will almost certainly be rebalanced over the course of the betas, so don't think it to be set in stone.
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When can we expect a beta version? I'm very eager to play with these mysterious changes. For testing purposes, of course :)
LuckyDee:
--- Quote from: Game Hunter on April 17, 2012, 09:57 ---...I reduced the rewards for completing the level.
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I can actually fully agree with this. Referring back to my cases, above:
1) If I don't care about what level the Arena is on (probably because I'm wielding a shotgun), I wouldn't care much for the cells, the Supercharge or the blue armor; I'd only be doing it for the RL, and that only because I aim to do the Wall afterwards.
2) In special cases (such as AoB and AoMr), I'd only be doing it for the experience. Barely surviving is good enough, but it does have to be survivable. Chances with 1 pistol and SOG1 are slim; chances with a knife and BRU1 are too slim. I do realise this might be my personal lack of experience speaking, but as I pointed out, suffering damage on AoB is unavoidable, even if you manage to dodge all ranged attacks. If you don't find an armor before L2 is through, you can kiss it as far as I can see.
So to me it's not a matter of coming out better than you're going in, it's about coming out at all.
skarczew:
--- Quote from: Game Hunter on April 17, 2012, 09:57 ---However, I took the position that Hell's Arena is meant to be a hard special level, so I placed it (for the time being) on the second floor rather than the third. At the same time (and also for the time being) I reduced the rewards for completing the level. The reasons for these things can't be detailed without spoiling some new features: suffice it to say that I want to make the decision to enter certain special levels a real choice, rather than a nigh-guaranteed "I will come out with more than what I brought in" thought process. This sort of stuff, however, is greatly influenced by beta testing and will almost certainly be rebalanced over the course of the betas, so don't think it to be set in stone.
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Play the game first before screwing the things that already quite decent.
And please, do not come with "2Dev tested it out and said it is doable, so we increased the difficulty", because I will feed my bunnies with your interiors =) .
--- Quote ---I reduced the rewards for completing the level.
--- End quote ---
Look above.
Game Hunter:
Regardless of which floor it goes on, I really do want to remove the level range, and the reason is simply because it should reduce rerolling games. Back when Angel of Haste used to exist, the fact that Hell's Arena wasn't guaranteed as the first floor (and, by the rules of AoHa, didn't show up at all) made you either decide to not use it as a stepping stone, or continuously reroll until it showed up. That's an exceptional example (especially because AoHa isn't around) but it's this sort of ridiculous metagaming that I'd like to remove. There are other things we're considering to discourage game rerolls, but they'll also need plenty of testing to make sure none of them end up detracting from real non-meta gameplay.
--- Quote from: skarczew on April 17, 2012, 13:06 ---Play the game first before screwing the things that already quite decent.
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It's true that I don't have as much time to playtest the things I implement, especially with regards to entire playthroughs, but please keep in mind that I do come from a well-played background in this game. In fact, I once wrote a rather lengthy guide detailing the kind of strategy involved in collecting certain badges, among other things. So while this may come across as another instance of a dev sitting in his ivory tower, I do understand a good deal of the ramifications when I change things around.
Also keep in mind that, as I said before, these changes are basically proposals and are by no means decided upon. If it turns out that placing Hell's Arena too early makes it and the rest of the game far harder, I have no qualms moving it elsewhere. However, I would like to set up Hell's Arena as a sort of training ground, by which players can test themselves to see whether or not they play the game with a certain degree to skill. The cleanest way to do this is to give them as little advantage as possible entering the level. With this in mind, I have plans to add some extra shells/bullets strewn about the arena on earlier waves, so players aren't screwed because they couldn't find enough ammunition prior to entering. I'm fairly certain that all difficulties clearing the first two floors will reach clvl2 at the least (ITYTD might be one or two kills away), which is more than enough to prepare your traits for whatever build you've focused yourself on. (AoB is a weird exception, and I am very open to the possibility of specifically moving the dlvl in that case to acommodate.)
I'll be specific about the reward reduction as currently changed: I removed the cells entirely and dropped the rocket count to three stacks (as opposed to nine). Back when I would play regularly, Hell's Arena ensured me just about all the rockets I needed to win the game, and this always struck me as too much of a good thing. With this, you have "some rockets", but you'll still need to scavenge for more (and prevents total rocket-spamming on Unchained Court). Concerns regarding The Wall need not apply, as things will change to that level such that you don't actually require rockets to complete it. (It'll still be plenty interesting enough.)
--- Quote from: Matt_S on April 17, 2012, 10:51 ---When can we expect a beta version? I'm very eager to play with these mysterious changes. For testing purposes, of course :)
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Kornel's the person to ask about beta releases. In theory, we could maybe make a "content patch" beta that has changes exclusive to gameplay additions and rebalances (that are either already in the repo or close to it). There's still a ton more work to be done in other areas, however, so you'll have to be patient.
Matt_S:
--- Quote from: Game Hunter on April 17, 2012, 14:10 ---Concerns regarding The Wall need not apply, as things will change to that level such that you don't actually require rockets to complete it. (It'll still be plenty interesting enough.)
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Ohoho, you just make me even more curious. Does this mean AoB/Mr/Sh can clear it without needing phase devices?
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