Other Roguelikes > DiabloRL
Suggestion for difficulty levels and game restart
nokturnal:
--- Quote ---And when you finish normal, you play nightmare, and when you at last finish hell you put your char to thrash?
--- End quote ---
yeah, then they go to the museum. what do you usually do with your characters when you finish a game? :P
--- Quote ---I don't believe you can finish game on all diff levels with one char without restarting.
--- End quote ---
i just said i did, if you believe me or not ..i dont care
--- Quote ---I mean using same waypoints several times is kind of restarting too
--- End quote ---
are you suggesting i should play the game in one run? :D
DaEezT:
--- Quote from: Ugm on January 03, 2007, 14:59 ---No, no, DaEezT, I mean that original Diablo is quite an arcade game to me. Kornel wrote that he wants to make DiabloRL basing on Jarulf's Guide and thus making it very close to the original. Diablo isn't very complicated and you expect DiabloRL to be a great epic tale?
--- End quote ---
I never read anything about "making it very close to the original." from Kornel. But, as I already quoted above, he did say that things from Diablo II might make it into DiabloRL.
--- Quote from: Ugm on January 03, 2007, 14:59 ---If most of rules were implemented and even new dungeons, items, monsters, skills/spells were added, the final product would not fall into the same category as ADOM or Nethack, because Diablo is an arcade hack'n'slash game with just a cRPG elements!
--- End quote ---
Depends on how you define de boundaries of that "category". Nethack could also be seen as a "hack'n'slash game with just a cRPG elements" depending on how exactly you define the terms. I definitely don't consider Nethack to be some kind of epic, character driven, uber RPG with a novel grade story.
About the whole "acarde game" thing:
DoomRL was based on Doom, but only theme wise! Items, monsters, basic story are from Doom but that's it.
Doom didn't have inventory system, equipment system, traits (BIG feature), reloading/magazins, overcharging, special levels, destructible walls, etc.
So effectively DoomRL was sort of an advance over the original Doom (I said "sort of" because you can't really compare cross-genre). Especially the trait system as it makes things like pure melee or pure pistol possible and with the introduction of weapon mods it gets even better.
So I naturally expect the same basic tendency from DiabloRL. And NO, I don't expect the next version to be OMGWTFBBQUBER ADoM³ or whatever but the basic tendency should be to take the theme and the good parts and combine them with non-Diablo elements to make a good game istead of making it a watered down clone.
That is why I am very opposed to the thought of DiabloRL ending up as some kind of "arcade" game. AFter all, it already had features like character stats, spells, items/Artifacts, side quests, inventory system, equipment system, in-game story elemnts (talk to NPCs) which are all things that Doom didn't have, and DoomRL turned out to have <edit>some of</edit> them.
Zephyre Syx:
So many viewpoints...
So officially we have but a few choices to do with difficulty level, and level restarts. I'm gonna list them cause reading this thread is making my head hurt.
1 - Using a hardcore single character and going up in difficulty;normal,nightmare,hell.
2 - Using a hardcore single character that will unlock later difficulties, but can play previous one before proceeding.
3 - I don't really like the others...
While it's true DiabloRL should remain towards the RogueLike roots and the traditions of Diablo, but what are the benefits from those options. Number two I rather not go with. RogueLike is all about risk, and because you completed the normal difficulty, why do you want to replay it with that strong character? Because really not only that your character not grow, but also deprive her from getting some kickass shtuff. Plus, it make your char look cheap.
In my opinion, I don't think there should be any looking back. Once you beat hell difficulty, she won, she's done.
And there's this other option I don't know if y'all already said it or not, but regardless, I'm sticking with option one.
4 - Using option two while other difficulties got more sh!t and more rewarding and juicy. Okey that is option two but whatever...
Edit:four posts started when I was typing. But I like DaEezT's last comment, the phrase is "away from traditions".
From Kornel's readme file..."Programmer''s edition -- how the author himself see''s the world of Diablo". It going which away from the start, so what's done to DoomRL, the same goes with DiabloRL.
DaEezT:
--- Quote from: Zephyre Syx on January 03, 2007, 16:54 ---1 - Using a hardcore single character and going up in difficulty;normal,nightmare,hell.
[...]
While it's true DiabloRL should remain towards the RogueLike roots and the traditions of Diablo, but what are the benefits from those options. [...] RogueLike is all about risk, and because you completed the normal difficulty, why do you want to replay it with that strong character? Because really not only that your character not grow, but also deprive her from getting some kickass shtuff. Plus, it make your char look cheap.
In my opinion, I don't think there should be any looking back. Once you beat hell difficulty, she won, she's done.
--- End quote ---
I second this (because I wanted the same system all along :p)
nokturnal:
my major argument for having a mode WITHOUT permadeath, is the way diablo (& hopefully diablorl) is focused around the interplay between items and skills - if you want to survive on hell you NEED gear specific for your class, and particular build.
now, most roguelike have items that looks something like this:
a +0, +1 short sword
.. or when they really go wild maybe
a +3, +5 flail of the apocalypse, with one or 2 additional stats. i.e most of the time its not that hard to find what you need.
in diablo (again refering to no2) items might look like this:
Cloudcrack - Gothic Sword
One-Hand Damage: (42) To (120)
Two-Hand Damage: (97) To (180)
Required Level: 45
Required Strength: 113
Required Dexterity: 20
+150-200% Enhanced Damage (varies)
6% Chance To Cast Level 7 Fist Of The Heavens On Striking
Adds 1-240 Lightning Damage
10% To Maximum Lightning Resist
+30 Defense
Attacker Takes Lightning Damage Of 15
+2 To Defensive Auras (Paladin Only)
+2 To Offensive Auras (Paladin Only)
+2 To Light Radius
now, consider how much more angry you would be, after hours and hours of dungeon crawling, and you finally find that ultimate item for your character, only to see him permanently die a while later.. in nethack or whatever there's always a pretty good chance you can find that apocalypse mace or equivalent, and gear is not as big part of the game as in the diablo series.
now, of course i dont excpect as elaborate items as shown above, but its still very much the essence of both diablo games, finding the perfect randomised gear for your char.
as much all you hardcore RL'ers scream for permadeath, I as a hardcore D2'er, scream for a non-permadeath option :D
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