Other Roguelikes > DiabloRL
Suggestion for difficulty levels and game restart
Adral:
--- Quote from: nokturnal on January 03, 2007, 17:26 ---now, consider how much more angry you would be, after hours and hours of dungeon crawling, and you finally find that ultimate item for your character, only to see him permanently die a while later.. in nethack or whatever there's always a pretty good chance you can find that apocalypse mace or equivalent, and gear is not as big part of the game as in the diablo series.
--- End quote ---
You just provided the solution to having permadeath and ph4t l3wt in a single pack: making special items appearance nethack-like. Perhaps a guaranteed "wish" after a certain quest (or completing a difficulty level) or just making nice items appear more frequently.
That way we can have both, what do you think?
nokturnal:
--- Quote from: Adral on January 03, 2007, 17:31 ---You just provided the solution to having permadeath and ph4t l3wt in a single pack: making special items appearance nethack-like. Perhaps a guaranteed "wish" after a certain quest (or completing a difficulty level) or just making nice items appear more frequently.
That way we can have both, what do you think?
--- End quote ---
was that a joke? sorry i dont quite follow you :P
nerf the ph4t diablo l3wt into nethack looking stuff? if thats what you mean, i think its the worst idea ever :D. and the wish part ..have i really smoked to many joints today, or is your english really weird? :)
Adral:
--- Quote from: nokturnal on January 03, 2007, 17:37 ---was that a joke? sorry i dont quite follow you :P
nerf the ph4t diablo l3wt into nethack looking stuff? if thats what you mean, i think its the worst idea ever :D. and the wish part ..have i really smoked to many joints today, or is your english really weird? :)
--- End quote ---
Wasn't a joke this time. :P
What I mean is that we have NICE Diablo stuff but with Nethack probability of getting it. That is why I said perhaps being able to "wish" for certain items, just like in Nethack, might be one solution to the problem: you would know that after completing each difficulty level or a certain quest, you would be able to wish for the item of your choice. This way you could get the weapons/armor you haven't found and you need for higher difficulties.
The other option was to just have them appear more frequently. In Roguelikes a good player knows how to use the items, so the difficulty would be to choose your equipment wisely to get the best weapons/armor/etc for your class/build combo. That's what happens in Crawl, too. You end getting up nice items, so the difficulty and the fun part of it is choosing what are the best -foo-s that suit your needs.
Making the nicer items too hard to find would make us play over and over again on "safe" zones until the item you want appears => repetition and boringness, in my opinion. Also, as you said, a killed character would make us angrier since we would have invested much more time in it.
And I don't think you should speak of weird English - yours is much weirder than mine :P.
DaEezT:
--- Quote from: nokturnal on January 03, 2007, 17:26 ---my major argument for having a mode WITHOUT permadeath, is the way diablo (& hopefully diablorl) is focused around the interplay between items and skills - if you want to survive on hell you NEED gear specific for your class, and particular build.
now, of course i dont excpect as elaborate items as shown above, but its still very much the essence of both diablo games, finding the perfect randomised gear for your char.
--- End quote ---
That basic idea is probably why we'll never find common ground :p
It's the reason why I could never stand to play a D2 character for more than a week or any MMO for a longer period of time. I loath the idea of having to farm specific gear for some specific build for a specific class because the game designers made the game too hard to beat otherwise. I can nuke/BFG/slice&dice Cybie, why do I need that Hammer Of Paladinism to kill Diablo?
--- Quote from: nokturnal on January 03, 2007, 17:26 ---now, consider how much more angry you would be, after hours and hours of dungeon crawling, and you finally find that ultimate item for your character, only to see him permanently die a while later.. in nethack or whatever there's always a pretty good chance you can find that apocalypse mace or equivalent, and gear is not as big part of the game as in the diablo series.
--- End quote ---
That point makes no sense to me :/
What you saying is that because in Diablo II the drop rate for good items is so low that it takes long to farm it would be bad to have permadeath in DiabloRL?
As you mentioned yourself the chance of finding a good items is higher in Nethack and other RL's. That is because they have permadeath.
The drop rates in D2 have to be low because a palyer can just do Mephisto/Baal runs 24/7 but you can't do the same in Nethack.
The whole drop rate thing is part of the game balance and of course a balanced Rogue Like with permadeath would have different drop rates than Diablo II has.
nokturnal:
--- Quote from: Adral on January 03, 2007, 17:47 ---What I mean is that we have NICE Diablo stuff but with Nethack probability of getting it. That is why I said perhaps being able to "wish" for certain items, just like in Nethack, might be one solution to the problem: you would know that after completing each difficulty level or a certain quest, you would be able to wish for the item of your choice. This way you could get the weapons/armor you haven't found and you need for higher difficulties.
--- End quote ---
its not a bad idea, tho personally i like to hack my way to the items :). and in diablo2 there's is a few similar quests already, in act1 you get to 'imbue' a non-magical item, into a rare item with random properties, and later you are also rewarded a rare item. theres is however no way to wish for any specific items or stats. and just getting exactly what you wish for isnt any fun imo, i like randomness :)
--- Quote ---The other option was to just have them appear more frequently. In Roguelikes a good player knows how to use the items, so the difficulty would be to choose your equipment wisely to get the best weapons/armor/etc for your class/build combo. That's what happens in Crawl, too. You end getting up nice items, so the difficulty and the fun part of it is choosing what are the best -foo-s that suit your needs.
Making the nicer items too hard to find would make us play over and over again on "safe" zones until the item you want appears => repetition and boringness, in my opinion. Also, as you said, a killed character would make us angrier since we would have invested much more time in it.
--- End quote ---
in diablo there already is a fun way to up you chances of getting better items, the Magic Find or MF stat, which appears on certain items, and on gems and runes, which you can insert into gear which is socketed (sacrificing other important runes & gems of course).
this would in my mind be a better approach, the nethack/crawl take on that, wouldnt be in the spirit of diablo imo.
i can agree to up 'the starting base' for finding good items a bit tho..
and like i previously stated, there really isnt any need to replay areas of d2 if you play the game right.
--- Quote ---And I don't think you should speak of weird English - yours is much weirder than mine :P.
--- End quote ---
oh really? i guess i have smoked too many joints :P
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