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Author Topic: [0.8.2] YAVP - Oorah, Bob! - and some thoughts on the game  (Read 3809 times)

Traveller

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-- AliensRL 0.8.2 Post Mortem ----------------------------------------

  Name     : Bob
  Class    : Marine
  Rank     : Veteran
  Result   : killed the queen and escaped
  Score    : 19740

  Total experience  : 17480
  Experience left   : 1320
  Game length       : 746435 turns

  Security keycards : 19
  Military keys     : 0

  Armor   : Power armor [4]
  Sidearm : .44 colt (5/6)
  Primary : M41A pulse rifle (94/99)
  Heavy   : M5 RPG (ready)
  Medpacks: 3

-- Graveyard ---------------------------------------------------------

  #//###################################   
  .....................................#   
  .....................................#   
  ####/#-##################/######/##..#   
  .##....ー..#...ー........#....ー.....#..#   
  .##.......#............,..........#..#   
  .##..ワ...ー#..ワ..ワ..ワ...|..ワ..ワ....#..#   
  ー##.......#ー...........|ー........ー#..#   
  .##..ワ....#..ワ..ワ..,..ー|..ワ..ワ....#..#   
  .##ー.....ー#ー...........|.........ー#..#   
  ー##....ー.a#............#.......ー..#..#   
  .#####/############/##########/####..#   
  .##......#........%...#..........#..#   
  a##.......#............#..........#..#   
  ###.ワワワ.#............#........../..#   
  .##.......#......%....%#......X==.#..#   
  .##..ワワワ.#......%.....#......===.#..#   
  .##......./........%...#......===.#..#   
  .##..ワワワ..#######/######..........#..#   
  .##.....#......%%....#####/######..#   
  .##..ワワワ..#............#.ー........#..#   
  .##.......#.......%....#..........#..#   
  .##....a.#............#ー.ワ..ワ....#..#   
  .#####/####............/..........#..#   
  .##..%....#............#..ワ..ワ....#..#   
  ###.......#............#..........#..#   
  .##..ワ....#............#..ワ..ワ....#..#   
  .##.......#######/######......%...|..#   
  ー##..ワ....#.ー...ー..ー...#..ワ..ワ....#..#   
  .##ー......#......%.%..ー#..........#..#   
  ###..ワ...ー#..ワ..ワ..ワ...#..ー.ー..ー..|..#   
  .##.......#............######/#####..#   

-- Skills ------------------------------------------------------------

  Sidearms      : basic
  Light weapons : master
  Heavy weapons : basic
  Technical     : advanced
  Medicine      : basic
  Fitness       : basic
  Perception    : basic

-- Ammunition --------------------------------------------------------

  9mm ammo      : 400/400
  5.56 ammo     : 305/400
  .44 ammo      : 92/150
  M309 ammo     : 268/500
  M250 ammo     : 500/500
  60mm gren.    : 33/40
  12g. shells   : 200/200
  napalm cartrid: 20/20
  frag grenade  : 4/4
  inc grenade   : 3/4
  krak grenade  : 1/4

-- Other items -------------------------------------------------------

  3 * medpack
  5 * painkiller pack
  1 * multi-tool
  5 * armor pack
  4 * stimpack
  19 * security key
  1 * military stimpack

-- Kills (1468) ------------------------------------------------------

  416 juveniles
  214 warriors
  62 elites
  20 praetorians
  223 scavengers
  228 hunters
  61 stalkers
  182 drones
  53 workers
  5 overseers
  1 queen
  3 defense turrets

-- Messages ----------------------------------------------------------

 hunter! The hunter dies.
 You enter the corridor. Entering
 Civilian Tower, level 2...
 Press Escape for game menu and help.
 Press Escape for game menu and help.
 You hit the hunter! You lightly hit
 the hunter! The hunter dies.
 You reload your weapon.
 The warrior shreds you!
 You hit the warrior! You barely
 scratch the warrior! You hit the
 warrior! The warrior dies.
 There's nothing lying here.
 You activate the elevator. Entering
 Civilian Tower, level 1...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

"Alright, Level 8 here we go, full of Praetorians, I got this, here is the Queen, I have a pulse rifle, an RPG launcher, ALL THE GRENADES, I GOT THIS!"

A minute later.

"...what do you mean I have to go ALL THE WAY BACK!?"

Hella fun game, let me tell you. Some thoughts:

- Will there be motion trackers in the future? Maybe giving characters a Gear slot for trackers, torches for those spooky lowlight levels, Geiger counters...
- Some guns need to be made more/less common. As it is, FN SCARs are everywhere, while I saw a single combat shotgun in the entire run - and not earlier than Level 4-5. The lower levels were full of shells, though.
- Mk12 Sniper Rifle is terrible. Even at Expert skill, it failed to put down aliens in time before they got into melee range, and the long time taken by each shot (1.5 seconds, I think) means they get many free hits that can easily put you into Pain -5, even with Plasteel armor.
- Being able to carry an extra weapon in the same class (sidearm, light, heavy) would help a lot during those moments where your current ammo is running out and you're full of other types of rounds. Perhaps making it a function of Fitness? Yes, USMC Marines are not the Doomguy with his hammerspace inventory, but they do carry a lot of ammo for weapons they might never see in a game.
- The end run back home is fun, but perhaps it could use more aliens. I'm not saying filling the way down with Praetorians, but perhaps spawning more of the lowercase aliens, or making worker caste aliens automatically aggressive.
- The targeting function just wanted me to kill workers all day every day, even in the face of immediate threats like Warriors and Hunters. It also had a beef against defense turrets. Which apparently count as kills of my own when aliens get them?
- The game crashed on me once during this run. It has happened before, and fortunately I didn't lose my save, but it was still spooky after all I had managed. I don't remember the exact circumstances, but I think I was going from Storage to Civilian (when I restarted the program and loaded the game, that's where it dropped me)
- I saw military-locked levels as early as Level 3 in this run. Coupled with the many broken elevators that can result in generation (I saw just one working elevator on average per level in this game), I wonder if this can end up in unwinnable games for lack of keys/firepower.
- And speaking of firepower, secure doors are way too tough. When krak grenades and RPGs have an easier time taking down the surrounding walls than the doors themselves, I'd say you got an issue. :D

All in all, I loved it, and I am looking forward to future updates!
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Klear

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Re: [0.8.2] YAVP - Oorah, Bob! - and some thoughts on the game
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2012, 02:39 »

- I saw military-locked levels as early as Level 3 in this run. Coupled with the many broken elevators that can result in generation (I saw just one working elevator on average per level in this game), I wonder if this can end up in unwinnable games for lack of keys/firepower.
- And speaking of firepower, secure doors are way too tough. When krak grenades and RPGs have an easier time taking down the surrounding walls than the doors themselves, I'd say you got an issue. :D

I played a game yesterday. Got myself into a tough situation of this type, with nowhere to go without keys and wasting my kraks on getting to the military tower (I should have checked a map)

Then I found out I can "open" security doors with ~100 shots from sawed-off shotgun. It took some time, but it worked eventually and shotgun ammo is everywhere anyway.

Late edit: I forgot to mention that it would be great if, when there are no targets in sight, the game remembered the last place that was aimed at. Pressing F-F-R is a little more convenient than pressing F-F-Down-R, expecially if I have to do it a hundred times.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2012, 05:51 by Klear »
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Lomaster

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Re: [0.8.2] YAVP - Oorah, Bob! - and some thoughts on the game
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2012, 04:46 »

On the topic of carrying extra weapon of the same class i'd say let's allow extra primary in exchange for heavy, extra sidearm in exchange for primary. Or 3 sidearms in exchange for primary and heavy.

And i agree that targeting drones and workers by default is a bad idea.
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skarczew

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Re: [0.8.2] YAVP - Oorah, Bob! - and some thoughts on the game
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2012, 07:15 »

Quote
Will there be motion trackers in the future? Maybe giving characters a Gear slot for trackers, torches for those spooky lowlight levels, Geiger counters...
Those are among (too) many things that are to be implemented. Show support and Kornel will do sth with it.

Quote
- Some guns need to be made more/less common. As it is, FN SCARs are everywhere, while I saw a single combat shotgun in the entire run - and not earlier than Level 4-5. The lower levels were full of shells, though.
True. FN SCARS are everywhere. However, Combat Shotgun, though rare, could be found starting at level 1-2, afair.
And the next version should have item spawning handled in a better way.

Quote
- Mk12 Sniper Rifle is terrible. Even at Expert skill, it failed to put down aliens in time before they got into melee range, and the long time taken by each shot (1.5 seconds, I think) means they get many free hits that can easily put you into Pain -5, even with Plasteel armor.
Could be, though it is typical weapon for handling solo targets, not swarms of aliens.

Quote
- Being able to carry an extra weapon in the same class (sidearm, light, heavy) would help a lot during those moments where your current ammo is running out and you're full of other types of rounds. Perhaps making it a function of Fitness? Yes, USMC Marines are not the Doomguy with his hammerspace inventory, but they do carry a lot of ammo for weapons they might never see in a game.
Two Pulse Rifles instead of Primary and Heavy weapon? Maybe.

Quote
- The end run back home is fun, but perhaps it could use more aliens. I'm not saying filling the way down with Praetorians, but perhaps spawning more of the lowercase aliens, or making worker caste aliens automatically aggressive.
I can agree. The game seems too easy at this point.

- The targeting function just wanted me to kill workers all day every day, even in the face of immediate threats like Warriors and Hunters. It also had a beef against defense turrets. Which apparently count as kills of my own when aliens get them?
(...)i agree that targeting drones and workers by default is a bad idea.
I mentioned it lots of times to Kornel, you have to do it as well, 'cause he is stubborn.
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Lomaster

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Re: [0.8.2] YAVP - Oorah, Bob! - and some thoughts on the game
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2012, 07:38 »

I mentioned it lots of times to Kornel, you have to do it as well, 'cause he is stubborn.
How?
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skarczew

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Re: [0.8.2] YAVP - Oorah, Bob! - and some thoughts on the game
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2012, 14:55 »

How?
By mentioning it again, and again, in posts :P .
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AJBuwalda

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Re: [0.8.2] YAVP - Oorah, Bob! - and some thoughts on the game
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2012, 03:33 »

By mentioning it again, and again, in posts :P .
Basically, annoy him until he complies? :-P
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skarczew

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Re: [0.8.2] YAVP - Oorah, Bob! - and some thoughts on the game
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2012, 04:36 »

Basically, annoy him until he complies? :-P
Yep. Alone I have just some little influence, but it can't be compared to massive complaints from all players :) .
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AJBuwalda

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Re: [0.8.2] YAVP - Oorah, Bob! - and some thoughts on the game
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2012, 04:51 »

Power of the people... Yeah, that hardly ever works :-P
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skarczew

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Re: [0.8.2] YAVP - Oorah, Bob! - and some thoughts on the game
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2012, 06:37 »

Well, we don't have democracy here, so it can actually work =) .
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AJBuwalda

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Re: [0.8.2] YAVP - Oorah, Bob! - and some thoughts on the game
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2012, 07:35 »

Well, we don't have democracy here, so it can actually work =) .
You must be European, because the whole of Europe lacks democracy lately :-P
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thelaptop

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Re: [0.8.2] YAVP - Oorah, Bob! - and some thoughts on the game
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2012, 08:22 »

Basically, annoy him until he complies? :-P
That or place a large enough bounty that he has to take notice.

But then again, that might not work well either...

* thelaptop glances at the massive DoomRL 1.0 bounty as well as the DoomRL server bounty.
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Re: [0.8.2] YAVP - Oorah, Bob! - and some thoughts on the game
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2012, 09:59 »

Some guns need to be made more/less common. As it is, FN SCARs are everywhere, while I saw a single combat shotgun in the entire run - and not earlier than Level 4-5. The lower levels were full of shells, though.
Agreed, although it should be somewhat within reason. If we're going to keep along the route that "all towers have ammo for some reason" then increasing the chance for weapons that match ammo found in that area is reasonable. Also, since I know we can't guarantee weapons without making things static, military tower should be really loaded with all weapons in general, even if you end up with a lot of low-end duplicates. (Gives you a reason to blow some multitools there, no?)

Mk12 Sniper Rifle is terrible. Even at Expert skill, it failed to put down aliens in time before they got into melee range, and the long time taken by each shot (1.5 seconds, I think) means they get many free hits that can easily put you into Pain -5, even with Plasteel armor.
A sniper rifle should probably have a consideration that you need to stand still for a little bit before its full accuracy comes into play, but have REALLY good accuracy at that point (I'm talking perfect/critical on 75% of shots). Additionally, perhaps its functionality can be expanded to see beyond normal range when in firing mode: pop a grenade to attract attention and watch the bugs meet their death. At the end of the day it'll need to be balanced but I'd like to take this direction in general for specialty weapons.

Being able to carry an extra weapon in the same class (sidearm, light, heavy) would help a lot during those moments where your current ammo is running out and you're full of other types of rounds. Perhaps making it a function of Fitness? Yes, USMC Marines are not the Doomguy with his hammerspace inventory, but they do carry a lot of ammo for weapons they might never see in a game.
A long while back I had a similar suggestion:
Right now the current inventory is very, very limited. This mostly has to do with a lack of items in general but, even then, the restrictions on the player are forced in some areas. First and foremost, I suggest that the player's limit to three weapons is expanded so that lighter weapons can occupy the heavier slots. This would mean that a player could wield three pistols, or two pistols and an SMG, or a pistol and two SMGs, or a pistol, an SMG, and a smartgun. The fact that the player can't occupy these slots currently with obviously-smaller equipment is arbitrary: if there are problems with a player being able to use, for instance, all three sidearms, this should be addressed as a balance issue instead of a fundamental one. (The switching between weapons can still be the same, at least roughly, if that is the concern.)
Already I can see this throwing off the current scarcity (in that you can much more easily have three ammo stocks to fire from) but I don't think it's so significant as to wipe out balance. At worst a player with mastery could abuse the additional weaponry, but honestly, if they already have mastery, the extra weapon is icing on the cake.

Another cool consequence is that heavy weapon mastery could let the player hold two heavy weapons. Talk about a fun boost!

The targeting function just wanted me to kill workers all day every day, even in the face of immediate threats like Warriors and Hunters. It also had a beef against defense turrets. Which apparently count as kills of my own when aliens get them?
Targetting's weird, I'll give you that. But you can cycle through targets with the TAB key, and since it locks on your previous target afterwards, it's really just a matter of getting into a good habit.

The game crashed on me once during this run.
Was it an OS-like freeze, or did the crash write to the error log? If you have a text file like that, please paste it here (preferably in code tags).
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skarczew

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Re: [0.8.2] YAVP - Oorah, Bob! - and some thoughts on the game
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2012, 11:11 »

You must be European, because the whole of Europe lacks democracy lately :-P
Indeed. Almost true socialism there, although I wonder for how long time would the borrowed money suffice.
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Traveller

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Re: [0.8.2] YAVP - Oorah, Bob! - and some thoughts on the game
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2012, 19:18 »

Was it an OS-like freeze, or did the crash write to the error log? If you have a text file like that, please paste it here (preferably in code tags).

As a matter of fact, I do have an error log in the AliensRL directory. Like I said, it had happened before.
Code: [Select]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Timestamp   : 23-09-2012 23:25:06
Error level : FATAL EXCEPTION
Message     : Fatal exception encountered

An unhandled exception occurred at $00461791 :
EAccessViolation : Access violation
  $00461791  TLUAMAPNODE__GETCELL,  line 315 of E:/Projects/fpcvalkyrie/src/vluamapnode.pas
  $0049CD6E  TBEING__TICK,  line 516 of src/abbeing.pas
  $00469C44  TLEVEL__TICK,  line 247 of src/ablevel.pas
  $0041EA28  TWORLD__TICK,  line 189 of src/abworld.pas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Timestamp   : 23-09-2012 23:25:06
Error level : FATAL EXCEPTION
Message     : Fatal exception encountered

An unhandled exception occurred at $002CD0FF :
EAccessViolation : Access----------------------------------------------------------------------
Timestamp   : 26-09-2012 20:50:25
Error level : FATAL EXCEPTION
Message     : Fatal exception encountered

An unhandled exception occurred at $00461791 :
EAccessViolation : Access violation
  $00461791  TLUAMAPNODE__GETCELL,  line 315 of E:/Projects/fpcvalkyrie/src/vluamapnode.pas
  $0049CD6E  TBEING__TICK,  line 516 of src/abbeing.pas
  $00469C44  TLEVEL__TICK,  line 247 of src/ablevel.pas
  $0041EA28  TWORLD__TICK,  line 189 of src/abworld.pas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Timestamp   : 29-09-2012 0:13:13
Error level : FATAL EXCEPTION
Message     : Fatal exception encountered

An unhandled exception occurred at $00461791 :
EAccessViolation : Access violation
  $00461791  TLUAMAPNODE__GETCELL,  line 315 of E:/Projects/fpcvalkyrie/src/vluamapnode.pas
  $0049CD6E  TBEING__TICK,  line 516 of src/abbeing.pas
  $00469C44  TLEVEL__TICK,  line 247 of src/ablevel.pas
  $0041EA28  TWORLD__TICK,  line 189 of src/abworld.pas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Timestamp   : 29-09-2012 0:13:13
Error level : FATAL EXCEPTION
Message     : Fatal exception encountered

An unhandled exception occurred at $02FCD0FF :
EAccessViolation : Access
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