DRL > Requests For Features
Balance suggestions
AlterAsc:
My opinion on your notes and items in reversed order:
Bullet-Proof Vest: it has small advantage over green armor - it has no movespeed penalty. Not like -5% on green is noticable though.
Translocator, Subtle knife, Mjolnir: uniques are unique. They're not supposed to be always better. They are unique.
Frag Shotgun: treat it another way: you have spare space and no shells to fill it with so you take this and 10mm ammo. So if suddenly you're out of shells, you still can fight.
Demolition armor: it is more or less okay on pistols. However Fire damage type horribly backfires when you attempt it on chain-gun. Because rapid-fire knockback in DoomRL is a bit messed up, most likely your target will get knocked out of bullet path and a lot of shots miss. Same with trying to use this again groups - first bullets knocks everyone in different direction without you doing much damage.
Scavenger: well, i still believe that it's perfectly okay with problem being the mods.
Survivalist: main problem of this trait is that in DoomRL you need to kill your enemies, not die longer. That's why when you meat 372 revenants somewhere in hell, most players choose build that allows them to kill things faster. Preferably even before enemies shoot.
SageAcrin:
--- Quote ---Translocator, Subtle knife, Mjolnir: uniques are unique. They're not supposed to be always better. They are unique.
--- End quote ---
As mentioned, a weapon that isn't worth anything to use may as well be empty space. If it's linearly worse than everything, there's no point in it existing, except for joke value. Translocator might have joke value, but it could easily have joke value and strategic use at the same time, and if there's a joke in the other two, it goes over my head. (Perhaps Subtle Knife is too subtle for me.)
It's novel to see a bad weapon, once, but after that you just ignore it. Or pick it up and set it down again for the register on your uniques record.
Basically, it's one thing if it's not better than what you have. I'm not saying that Mjolnir and Subtle Knife should compete with even the Butcher's Cleaver, let alone Longinus(which, realistically, most maingame melee builds will use). Just that they should have something that makes them have a theoretical use.
--- Quote ---Frag Shotgun: treat it another way: you have spare space and no shells to fill it with so you take this and 10mm ammo. So if suddenly you're out of shells, you still can fight.
--- End quote ---
Your primary weapon is probably going to do more damage than a Frag Shotgun is, though, thanks to the incredibly long 1.5s shot speed. Even a Combat Shotgun's pump only takes 0.2, so it takes 1.2 per shot and is more controllable. And that's a common weapon.
Also, the question of why you're heavily running shotguns enough to run out of ammo for them a lot, while still holding tons of 10mm in stock, does come to mind. Learning to manage and balance your ammo better would be much better than running a Frag Shotgun.
--- Quote ---Survivalist: main problem of this trait is that in DoomRL you need to kill your enemies, not die longer. That's why when you meat 372 revenants somewhere in hell, most players choose build that allows them to kill things faster. Preferably even before enemies shoot.
--- End quote ---
That's more of a question of what's effective when, which is really more of a general system balance question than one of that skill in particular...which means that it's basically out of the scope of Survivalist. Retooling Survivalist probably shouldn't involve retooling the entire armor/resistance system.
I admit, tanking is sort of a weird topic in DoomRL, but I don't think it's totally useless. Just not as good as other builds.
The main difference is that a heavily mobility oriented build keeps you in control more often(generally more valuable), a heavy damage build ends combat faster(generally more valuable), and a heavy defensive build raises the amount of time you can survive when you're neither in control, nor can damage enemies fast enough to drop them.
Generally less valuable...but not worthless. Sometimes you just go down a stairs, hit a group of two Archviles and four Hell Barons, and your Phase Device lands you in a dangerous spot too. Or maybe the entire level is a mess floor and it's just very difficult to avoid some damage. That sort of time is where two/three layers of TaN can slow down a lot of the damage you take, meaning that you'll be less likely to run out of healing on the floor, and more likely to be able to take valuable powerups with you to start the next floor, which in turn means you're more in control for the next, floor, etc.
The point I'm making is that Survivalist adds very little to that kind of insurance effect. So it's basically not helping with what I see as the advantage of tank builds.
AlterAsc:
Well, they're better than combat knife. And that's what you get in Ao100.
As for Frag shotgun - let's say you're doing AoSh UV/100% and want to do maximum number of special levels. There's a limited amount of shells in the game. Even if you take them all, sometimes you can still have free space. So you fill it with Frag Shotgun and 10mm. If you find them more shells you throw some 10mm away to take it.Seems obvious to me.
LuckyDee:
I saw your post and don't have time to really dig into it, at the moment - but I will, looks good - but here's some quick thoughts:
--- Quote from: SageAcrin on April 10, 2013, 11:49 ----Scavenger
--- End quote ---
I actually really like the idea of this trait. From what I've seen so far though, the options for obtaining mods should indeed be better, possibly at the cost of a couple of basic traits being made unavailable.
--- Quote from: SageAcrin on April 10, 2013, 11:49 ----Gun Kata
--- End quote ---
What makes GK count is the fact that you fire fast, reload fast upon killing and not get shot. Ok, against large numbers, trouble will arise, but one on one this trait really shines. Doing a no-invul Cyberdemon's head on AoMr with this trait is a blast.
I'll get back to you on this a.s.a.p., good stuff.
SageAcrin:
--- Quote ---Well, they're better than combat knife. And that's what you get in Ao100.
--- End quote ---
Why not use 8d2 Chainswords, instead? (Never mind that Chainsaws do show up randomly.)
Those don't even take Whizkid. The higher damage average on a Chainsword(12 vs Subtle Knife's 9 and Mjollnir's 8) makes up for Subtle Knife's Plasma for the most part. Mjollnir's not even a special element, IIRC.
I think even a Piercing Blade does more(3d5, 9 average, piercing so totally ignores armor).
--- Quote ---As for Frag shotgun - let's say you're doing AoSh UV/100% and want to do maximum number of special levels. There's a limited amount of shells in the game. Even if you take them all, sometimes you can still have free space. So you fill it with Frag Shotgun and 10mm. If you find them more shells you throw some 10mm away to take it.Seems obvious to me.
--- End quote ---
I think if a Frag Shotgun(Or Plasma Shotgun, as they do the same thing, much better, with Power Cells, or a Nano-Shrapnel) was remotely required to do 100%/UV/Conquerer/AoSh, I would be incredibly surprised.
For starters, Archviles can be used to farm shotgun shells.
For another thing, I have a mortem of doing 97%/AoS/UV run(I didn't have enough Cells to shoot through The Wall, which was the only thing I used that Plasma Shotgun for-dumped it after, it was a MAD build. That's why it's not 100%... :( ). From that mortem;
[b] shotgun shell (x50)
[c] shotgun shell (x50)
[d] shotgun shell (x50)
[e] shotgun shell (x50)
[f] shotgun shell (x50)
[g] shotgun shell (x25)
[h] shotgun shell (x50)
[i] shotgun shell (x50)
[j] shotgun shell (x50)
--- End code ---
I admittedly used an Elephant Gun most of the time, which is more ammo efficient than your average Double Shotgun, but I would be rather surprised if there was over 400 shells worth of enemies in the areas I skipped, with no replenishment at all at any point. I know Limbo/Mortuary can get nasty, but that's a hard sell.
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