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[Matt_S]

Were some posts deleted, or did I do something bad?

[Sereg]

If it helps, I'm not any closer to understanding the mystery then I was before all the "spoilers" posted thus far. I'm sure that, from the perspective of someone who does know how these items work, all the hints that have been given so far seem too helpful, and you might worry that no one could possibly not figure it out after reading them.

I assure you, from this side, it's still vague as all hell.

Keeping it in spoiler tags is completely understandable, of course - I realize there are some people out there who take a certain pride in figuring it out for themselves, and it would be a shame if they were to have it accidentally revealed by browsing through a thread.

As for me, though, I'm still without a clue.

[tdef]

based on the hints given in previous posts

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

the only condition that is both luck based and made easier with certain character builds i can think of is berserk status (packs or damage, does floor damages trigger berserk too?)

the other one that can be fullfilled at any time regardless of character status given that
-some users noted that some un-unequippable items can cause problems
-"DS is too heavy"
may be have inventory AND equipment slots empty (and berserking) when trying to pick it up

[Sereg]

Spoiler: Not really too spoiler-ish, but no longer necessary (click to show/hide)

Recommend spoilering that theory, just in case - it seems obvious to me and I expect those are some of the first things anyone would try, but the spoiler tags are still the way to go for this particular discussion. (I'll add that, since it seems so obvious, it's not the correct answer, unless there are other conditions along with it - but that doesn't make the spoiler tags any less necessary).

[Matt_S]

Spoiler: Super Secret Sensitive Stuff, Seriously (click to show/hide)

You can have items in your inventory (which is why I think the "too heavy" hint isn't terribly helpful), but I will conspicuously avoid commenting on the other parts.

[Rajhin]

Well, another DS-wielder here. I needed it for tech diamond so I took it.
OK, i will keep this "secret", but... let's just say this "secret" is hilarious and dissapointing. The only thing i'll say that this thread is a big overthinking.

[Sereg]

Well, another DS-wielder here. I needed it for tech diamond so I took it.
OK, i will keep this "secret", but... let's just say this "secret" is hilarious and dissapointing. The only thing i'll say that this thread is a big overthinking.

Well, when trying basic, simple things doesn't work, you tend to start thinking the solution is more complex. If it were really as simple as pressing "g" or "u", we'd all have it already. I will never be disappointed if I manage to pick it up - whatever the method is, it's too complicated for me.

[Matt_S]

So do you want me to PM you the secret?

[Rajhin]

So do you want me to PM you the secret?

I thought you already knew it.

Well, when trying basic, simple things doesn't work, you tend to start thinking the solution is more complex. If it were really as simple as pressing "g" or "u", we'd all have it already. I will never be disappointed if I manage to pick it up - whatever the method is, it's too complicated for me.

It really IS that basic and simple. There is nothing illogical or overcomplicated.

[Matt_S]

I thought you already knew it.

I guess I didn't communicate well.  I know it and I was offering to let Sereg in on the secret.

[Sereg]

I'm not sure that's allowed. I'm curious, but not that curious... yet. I appreciate the offer - suffice it to say I'm not one of those people who needs to figure it out themselves to have a sense of accomplishment about it, so I wouldn't be averse to learning the information that way. It's just that there seems to be such a contrived aura of secrecy around this item that I'm not sure the community as a whole would appreciate me finding out that way.

[GinDiamond]

I don't know about you, but have you noticed a pattern in 2Dev's mortems concerning the dragonslayer?

1. He doesn't seem to complete every special level, or even enter them all.
2. He doesn't complete The Wall (he can enter it, but he can't kill anything/didn't kill anything)
3. Notice that he always does Blademaster builds
4. I don't know if this is required to get the DS, but he always has antigrav plasteel boots, A modded
5. He never gets the Berserker armor to drop on a "regular" floor, only in The Mortuary
6. Does not have to be damageless, nor does it have to be 100% kills
7. 2Dev seems to do only melee after the UC. The DS drops on UC instead of Azarel's Sycthe.

How does the evidence add up to gaining the DS/Berserker Armor on predetermined levels? 2Dev, you are a god.

[Sereg]

1. The 2Dev mortems I've seen are all Nightmare Conqueror Full Wins, so the fact that he skips Conqueror could very well be relevant.
2. This seems odd to me. Perhaps there's a reason for it, but I can't think of what it might be.
3. This could be because he uses the timestop effect as his damageless strategy. Or it could also be related to a melee component of the requirements.

Spoiler: Possible pickup techniques (click to show/hide)

I've considered the possibility that you might need levels in Brute or Berserker to pick up DS.

4. I assume that's also part of his damage minimization strategy - when playing a melee focused build, getting to your enemies before they can shoot you is very useful.
5/7. It would appear they replace the guaranteed yellows from those levels when certain conditions are met, similar to how Azrael's Scythe replaces Longinus when HMP/100% kills is true.
6.

Spoiler: Spawn requirement theory (click to show/hide)

My theory is that it has something to do with Nightmare mode, but presumably there are other conditions.

[GinDiamond]

I also thought it was Nightmare mode, but I got the DS to spawn on some level while playing HNTR, and the Berserker armor spawned in the Lava Pits.

I know that there is a specific way to get the DS. However, here's what screws me over: don't you have to get the Berserker Armor FIRST and then you can pick up the DS? So why can 2Dev pick up the DS on UC and then get the Berserker Armor on the Mortuary, which comes afterward?

Also, attempting to pick something up counts as finding the item. If you don't attempt to pick up the DS, it can spawn again later that run.

The other screwy thing is how fast 2Dev does his runs. If I was on Nightmare!, I'd take my sweet time, figuring out how to do each move carefully. How can he manage a game that fast and get something so specialized?

Also, Tormouse got the Berserker Armor to spawn in the Mortuary, but he didn't get the DS in the UC. This shows that the Berserker Armor isn't completely connected to the spawning of the DS. Tormouse did a N! run on AoMc, not quite damageless, but he only got 56 points of damage. He also took a day to finish the run, so speed isn't necessary to spawn at least the Berserker Armor. He also did a Cateye build, so this could be why he didn't get the DS, if its spawning is related to your build at all. But Tormouse also entered and completed the Wall. So, if the Wall does correlate to the spawning of the DS, he may have blown it right there.

[Tormuse]

Spoiler: I'm not even sure which parts I'm supposed to use spoiler tags for, so I'll just spoiler tag everything.  :P (click to show/hide)

I also thought it was Nightmare mode, but I got the DS to spawn on some level while playing HNTR, and the Berserker armor spawned in the Lava Pits.

It's possible for DS and BA to spawn randomly regardless of difficulty, but you need to play Nightmare! to get the guaranteed ones to spawn.  (As far as I know)

I know that there is a specific way to get the DS. However, here's what screws me over: don't you have to get the Berserker Armor FIRST and then you can pick up the DS? So why can 2Dev pick up the DS on UC and then get the Berserker Armor on the Mortuary, which comes afterward?

From what I've observed, I don't think it matters what order you pick them up in, but you need to wield DS before you wear BA.

Also, attempting to pick something up counts as finding the item. If you don't attempt to pick up the DS, it can spawn again later that run.

That was certainly true in previous versions, but apparently, they've changed it in this version so you only get credit for finding it if you successfully pick it up.  :|  Now, even if you try to pick it up, you can still get it to spawn again later on in the same game.

The other screwy thing is how fast 2Dev does his runs. If I was on Nightmare!, I'd take my sweet time, figuring out how to do each move carefully. How can he manage a game that fast and get something so specialized?

That's just 2Dev being 2Dev.  I don't think he knows how to play the game slowly.  :)

Also, Tormouse got the Berserker Armor to spawn in the Mortuary, but he didn't get the DS in the UC. This shows that the Berserker Armor isn't completely connected to the spawning of the DS. Tormouse did a N! run on AoMc, not quite damageless, but he only got 56 points of damage. He also took a day to finish the run, so speed isn't necessary to spawn at least the Berserker Armor. He also did a Cateye build, so this could be why he didn't get the DS, if its spawning is related to your build at all. But Tormouse also entered and completed the Wall. So, if the Wall does correlate to the spawning of the DS, he may have blown it right there.

I actually did get the DS to spawn in UC in that game; it just didn't show up in the mortem.  (DS never shows up in the mortem unless you successfully pick it up)  As far as I can tell, the DS and BA spawn if you play a mostly damageless Nightmare! game.  (It doesn't seem to appear if you do it in AoOC, though; I tried) And you may be right about the Cateye build hindering my ability to pick it up.  It would not surprise me at all if being berserk is one of the conditions for picking it up, but I know for sure that it is not the only condition.  You need something more than simply being berserk, something that people keep saying is simple, but I haven't figured out what that is.  Whatever it is, it's something that you can do in any game, regardless of build or what special levels you play.  (as far as I can tell)

Also, since when am I a mouse?  ;)