DRL > Discussion

Master trait discussion 1: Gunrunner

<< < (5/7) > >>

White Rider:

--- Quote from: Aki on September 15, 2013, 07:55 ---It could be that too, although most monster AIs such as Revs will always try to get closer on a move.

--- End quote ---

I have never seen a Revenant move closer toward me after seeing me. It always stops and keeps firing as long as I remain in its LOS.
Are Revenants the Siege Tanks of DoomRL, I wonder...

Aki:
I have seen a rev on the edge of my sight range move towards me once. But they'll always shoot if they can.

I was more talking on the actions of a monster on a move once they're aware of the player.

I haven't encountered enough Vs to comment on their to-move action but even things such as pain elementals seem to charge towards me on a move.

2birds1stone:
Yes, Gunrunner is primarily shotgun-specific, and yes, Shottyhead could probably do with a re-tooling/buff, but I don't think making Gunrunner the shotgun mastery is a good idea.

For one thing, I'm not sure that you're correct in writing off pistols as non-synergistic. I've never tried DG/MGr, but free shot every move is better than free shot every dodge; the question is whether it's worth losing the free reloads over this advantage.

To be completely honest, I've always seen Gunrunner as borderline overpowered (specifically, the combination of Gunrunner and Shottyman). 45 turns of bottomless clip blitzkrieg action is kinda silly, the only significant drawback being that it's EXP-intensive. However, if Gunrunner must be buffed, just have it work in conjunction with rapid-fire weapons (which a general trait arguably should).

Finally, a single mortem really doesn't mean anything with regards to a trait or a build. If someone posts a successful fists-only N! run, that doesn't make fists-only a good strategy, it means that the player who did it is exceptionally good at the game (and knows how kill attribution works). In this particular instance, you've essentially said "I struggled using a HMP Explorer build in UV Conqueror, therefore Gunrunner is underpowered". Even if you did really well with that build and beat the game, that wouldn't show that the build was good, it would show that you're good.

W/r/t the tangent, you can ask the wiki about knockback mechanics rather than speculating. Shotguns deal knockback if they deal at least seven points of damage.

Aki:

--- Quote from: 2birds1stone on September 16, 2013, 06:00 ---Yes, Gunrunner is primarily shotgun-specific, and yes, Shottyhead could probably do with a re-tooling/buff, but I don't think making Gunrunner the shotgun mastery is a good idea.

For one thing, I'm not sure that you're correct in writing off pistols as non-synergistic. I've never tried DG/MGr, but free shot every move is better than free shot every dodge; the question is whether it's worth losing the free reloads over this advantage.
--- End quote ---

You suffer a noticeable accuracy penalty while running. While this isn't that bad with Eagle Eye, it does require the extra perk. Compared to Gun Kata, you only gain the benefit while running (which is a limited action, I don't know about you guys but I don't see too many medikits and powerups. Not enough to sustain the whole worth of the master trait.), and with Gun Kata you can do it all day, dancing around everything and anything not called a Revenant, and you can still corner shoot them while being careful. (Not that you'd fare any better on a gunrunner pistol build, those things are nasty) You also get the benefit of being able to pick what you're shooting at, which is quite handy when you have a higher tier monster surrounded by imps or something, whereas with Gunrunner you only shoot at the first one.

I'm really not seeing the synergy to be honest. :x


--- Quote ---To be completely honest, I've always seen Gunrunner as borderline overpowered (specifically, the combination of Gunrunner and Shottyman). 45 turns of bottomless clip blitzkrieg action is kinda silly, the only significant drawback being that it's EXP-intensive. However, if Gunrunner must be buffed, just have it work in conjunction with rapid-fire weapons (which a general trait arguably should).
--- End quote ---

I'd be all for that. If it was to remain a general trait, it should work with all weapons.

As for it being overpowered, the 45 turns is exactly the problem. Unless you get really lucky with spawns or are 2dev or blade, you're not clearing out a level in 45 turns. Especially later levels or levels on Ao100 or something. It essentially takes the RNG-dependance of Whizkid but gives you less benefit in return :s

One thing that i'd personally like to see is a small youtube clip or something where Gunrunner is put to good effect. Perhaps seeing it used properly could help me see where you're coming from? Apologies if that sounds presumptuous.


--- Quote ---Finally, a single mortem really doesn't mean anything with regards to a trait or a build. If someone posts a successful fists-only N! run, that doesn't make fists-only a good strategy, it means that the player who did it is exceptionally good at the game (and knows how kill attribution works). In this particular instance, you've essentially said "I struggled using a HMP Explorer build in UV Conqueror, therefore Gunrunner is underpowered". Even if you did really well with that build and beat the game, that wouldn't show that the build was good, it would show that you're good.
--- End quote ---

The Mortem's there to help facilitate discussion, not as a conclusive proof or anything like that. I'm also doing another run when I find the time. As for the build, I did mention that I came up with the idea for the thread when I was halfway through the run, and I was honestly too lazy to just do another run at that stage. Sorry if I made it seem that I was using the mortem as proof, that is NOT the case.


--- Quote ---W/r/t the tangent, you can ask the wiki about knockback mechanics rather than speculating. Shotguns deal knockback if they deal at least seven points of damage.

--- End quote ---

Thank you! I didn't see that we had a page on knockback. Took me a little bit of searching, but I found it. Good to know.

2birds1stone:
That's odd, I was under the impression that Gunrunner meant no accuracy penalties while running, but neither the wiki nor the game actually state this. I don't recall an embarrassing miss-rate with rocket launchers, but memory's fallible.

Small health globes are the single most likely item to spawn in the game; there are enough other healing items (including invulnerability globes) that I'd be very surprised if you couldn't enter sprint at least twice a level. The idea of Gunrunner isn't to spend entire levels rampaging, it's to pick your rampage times well; in this way, it's a very skill-based mastery. It's useful for those awkward moments when you don't have any cover and just need to dodge around a little while you shoot yourself an escape route. It's useful for moving from a terrible spawn to an easily defendable position. It's fantastic for the Mortuary, and most of the boss fights. It makes absolute mincemeat of Arch-Viles (which Gun Kata can't do so well, seeing as Arch-Vile attacks aren't dodged).

Gunrunner, a bit like an invulnerability globe, allows you to get yourself pretty much anywhere on the map in complete safety. Assuming you have an eye for positioning, this is going to guarantee map clear almost every time.

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page