Jupiter Hell > General Discussion

Design Rant : Inventory

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LuckyDee:

--- Quote from: Kornel Kisielewicz on January 24, 2014, 06:02 ---Eg, if you don't take any large items, the list could go for at least 40 elements, which gives us... 15 pixels per item?

--- End quote ---

40 elements? That's a lot more than what DoomRL supports, and given that the number of ammo-type items should be reduced, if I understand you correctly, I'm wondering what other stuff is going to be taking its place.

I'm still unsure about the whole ammo thing vs inventory. Unless you want to actually encourage the micromanagement, I still don't see the need to keep it among all your other items. Sure, Diablo2 had it, and rightly so. But that depends on the answer of this question: how big a role is melee combat intended to play in JH?

In Diablo2, the role of ranged combat was close to negligible, since even the one class specialized in ranged could be built for melee as well. In this case, it makes sense to compensate the benefit ranged combat offers with a little inventory space.
If in Jupiter Hell melee combat is going to be a last ditch thing, a do or die tactic, this means every conceivable character will be carrying around ammo, and the need to clutter up the inventory with it becomes obsolete. A (limited) number of counters will do just fine.
Even if it's destined to play a bigger part, I'd say melee would have to be a serious contender to warrant the inventoried ammo strategy. And if on the other hand it becomes too serious - DoomRL-melee-like serious and beyond - you still wouldn't need it, since everyone would go for melee the moment they lay their hands on the right weapon/trait/combination of both.

So in short: please explain to me the necessity of keeping ammo in the inventory at all. Also see my previous comments here.

Kornel Kisielewicz:

--- Quote from: LuckyDee on January 27, 2014, 11:54 ---So in short: please explain to me the necessity of keeping ammo in the inventory at all. Also see my previous comments here.

--- End quote ---

"Oh cool, a rocket launcher. Of course I'll take it, no strategy here, because I'm lugging those 23 rockets anyway, because they take no space. No strategy here, move along."

LuckyDee:
...and then take into account the fact that you can still limit the number of types of ammo carried... ;)

I'm probably being a pain in the ass here, but it's for a good cause. What I'm aiming at is that if you want the game to focus on the action and not on the inventory management, I think you should keep the inventory as lean as possible. Counters for expendables (ammo, medkits, stimpacks, whatnot) will help a lot. Especially if you keep them variable.

Trar:
That's what I'm thinking. I'd be fine with DOOM-esque limited ammo counters if it meant a more streamlined game. 'Course, I'd be fine with traditional ammo-in-inventory too even if it's mostly in ammo boxes, but that's probably not gonna happen.

Darren Grey:
I disliked the "tetris inventory" in Diablo myself, but I've seen it done better in other games (in particular in Sir, You Are Being Hunted). Key thing is to not have too many odd shapes and have the area to fill reasonably square. One problem I see in the mockup is you have 3x3 and 8x2 items in there, both sizes that don't fit well together. And the overall space is 7x8, which is bad for loads of items. Ideally it should be 8x8 and the only sizes are 1x1, 1x2, 2x1, 2x2, 2x4, 4x2 and 4x4. This makes them easy for players to juggle around.

I like Aerton's idea of having the model of the dude and the item pane, with equipped items given a yellow border/glow/whatever, Resident Evil style. It's intuitive and looks nice. Cutting out the slots overlaying the character model means you can admire your badass char more properly as you change equipment around, and would make everything look cleaner.

I also think inventory slots should be kept to a minimum, as it just leads to junk items. Weapon, weapon mod, armour, armour mod would do the trick. It keeps the item design focused on interesting content. Maybe later on in the game there could be additional mod slots added.

The ammo situation I think will need playtesting and tweaking to get right. It'll be a core part of the game, so something to fiddle with and get right early.

Love the NIN ammo :)

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