Jupiter Hell > General Discussion

Design Rant : Inventory

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thelaptop:
Alternative idea: Keep your friendly neighbourhood tetris method (and for goodness sake don't use prime numbers for the rectangle dimensions), but tab/group according to what Darren suggested.

This also means a tab for ammo.

This will also mean a slightly more realistic mechanism for tracking some of the bulkier objects.  The disadvantage is that it feels like how modern FPSes work; carry only 2 weapons at a time, which may be a terrible idea.

Zalminen:

--- Quote from: Kornel Kisielewicz on January 24, 2014, 06:02 ---This is a pretty valid point! For a moment I wanted to immediately go with it, however, there's another problem -- what about addon slots? Things like mods, or expansion elements for armor? There'll be no easy way to see what you're currently packing.

--- End quote ---
Just show them on top of the moddable item.
If you can add one mod to an armor, the armor will normally show a transparent smaller slot on top of the armor image and if it's already modded, it will just show the mod icon instead.

Sereg:

--- Quote from: Kornel Kisielewicz on January 27, 2014, 13:51 ---"Oh cool, a rocket launcher. Of course I'll take it, no strategy here, because I'm lugging those 23 rockets anyway, because they take no space. No strategy here, move along."

--- End quote ---

There also needs to be a balance between that example, where of course you pick it up because there's no reason not to, and making inventory ammo such a hassle that there's no point carrying the weapon at all. In DoomRL, I'd pick up a rocket launcher early on, but later in the game when inventory started getting tight, I'd ditch it, because it takes a minimum of two inventory spaces to operate - one for the weapon, and one for a single stack of ammo. Sure, it offers some utility, including tactical wall destruction and corpse gibbing, but it's not really viable as a weapon(at least I never thought so). And the later I get in the game, the more I value an extra health pack, or stack of main weapon ammo, or mod for an assembly I'm trying to build, over the occasional utility of the rocket launcher.

Perhaps my use of the rocket launcher was fairly unique, and better players then I did find it a viable strategic consideration, but to me it was a utility piece that quickly outlived its utility - or rather, the cost of continuing to keep it quickly grew to exceed the value of the utility it provided.

I suppose what I'm saying is, the realism of the ammo mechanics isn't really the point. Just because it doesn't make sense for me to carry around 23 rockets(or however many you have - it can certainly be artificially capped without an inventory system, as in original Doom) like it's no problem doesn't mean it can't be beneficial to game balance to do so.

Then again, I'm the guy who doesn't appreciate tactics and just brute-forced every challenge that could be achieved through an exploit someone else discovered, so I'm not exactly an expert on strategic decisions, still less on game balance. Perhaps that decision to simply ignore the item entirely is exactly the consequence you're looking to enforce on less strategic-minded players like myself =P

Regardless, what I've seen of the game so far, including this thread, looks excellent. Keep up the good work - I'm definitely looking forward to Jupiter Hell ;)

Infinitum:
List inventory all the way. Maybe have large items like unworn armor and heavy weapons take additional spots to somewhat simulate how unwieldy they are, but grid inventories are just that much more prone to clusterfuck the interface to be worth it in my opinion. Don't see why ammo boxes would be mandatory - couldn't the HUD just take stock of how many rounds of whatever weapon the PC is using is currently in the inventory and display that?

Sambojin:
Figured I'd throw in my 2c.

I like tetris systems. Loved them in Diablo, X-com, UFO:AI, in fact every game with them seems to be good. It's the micro-managey part of me coming out, that likes packing as much useful crap into the available space as the system allows. That said, I sort of thought that's what you'd like to avoid in JH.

So a few thoughts/questions:

Rather than specific types of ammo boxes, could you have generic ones, ammo pouches, with more being unlocked with traits/items? You can change the load-out of what ammo your pouches take as you want, but you'll still be ammo (and in a sense, weapon) limited. It would give another level of customization to characters.  Want a shotgun based character? Then all three initial pouches get set to pickup shells. Want a versatile one? Then 9mm/shell/plasma might be a handy loadout, but you'll have less total ammo for each type of weapon than the shotgun-only build would have. They'll undoubtedly be more common than specific boxes would be, but more useful as a character boost. Getting more pouches means more ammo for a specific weapon OR more versatility, but not both. Yet you can change what ammo they take on-the-fly should opportunities or circumstances dictate. It also gives you a weapon/sustainability/build progression option, without ever letting a "juggler of DOOM!" scenario come up (or having piles of ammo from the first few levels just looking for a use). It's limiting, but it lets you limit power-per-area fairly effectively, without forcing the player into a set character type. Of course, different ammo is larger or smaller per pouch used (similar to DoomRL's slot system). 10 rockets, 50 shells, 100 9mm for each pouch as an example.

When your character changes ammo types in any pouch, they literally will be throwing the ammo from that pouch away. Hopefully in a manner that will never let the enemy use it against them later (it's not recoverable because it's Space Marine Directive #402.4/b to never leave viable ammo around that the enemy may fire at you later. All excess ammunition that can not be stored, carried or equipped is to be rendered un-useable to prevent war materiel falling into enemy hands).

You can reload from lockers any weapon you're carrying, but you destroy any leftovers if you don't have pouches set to grab that ammo type (and have room for it in those pouches). This also gives different weapons of the same ammo type good uses regardless. A 50 round ammo capacity gun may be worth carrying just due to it's "ammo-slot" potential, rather than it's strict damage output. Which is a nice mechanic for uniques and specials. Or alternatively, it gives bulk mods a big side benefit of being able to be used asap (unless there's a specific assembly/whatever you want) for it's slotless ammo bonus.

Pouches could also be set-and-forget. Once you've determined the sort of ammo they take, you can't change it. Again, a balance issue. It'd almost put them in the power-up category, but would remove ammo micro-management entirely. I like the free-form idea more really, but "set-and-forget" is an option.

You could combine all of the above as well. Possibly even have different "levels" of ammo pouch. Some are just shell pouches. Some are big shell pouches. Some are alien shell pouches giving slightly better reload speed. Some are set-and-forget. Some are set-as-you-please. Some are needs-a-tech-mod-to-reset-them. A different form of micro-management, but cooler. Who knows? (yeah, well, chaosforge does, but they tend to). This might be making simplicity complicated, so I'd stick with a generic ammo pouch or set-and-forget for early builds.

(will edit more thoughts in soon. 1d weapon slots and traits, etc)

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