DoomRL > Discussion
Only played this for a weekish now, some praises/questions
thelaptop:
I'll repeat myself one more time; no need for any justifications for anything. It's just a game, and this is just a forum for people who like the game. =)
--- Quote from: thelaptop on February 25, 2014, 00:28 ---Post your thoughts once you've gotten at least 200 games under your belt. Then come back to this old thread and see how you have changed your perspective. You might even appreciate what I'm saying here too.
--- End quote ---
Sylph:
--- Quote from: Ghaleon on February 25, 2014, 02:10 ---It seems I need to clarify some things. I'm not actually whining (and certainly not crying) whenever I *cries* or qq or whatever. I just enjoy my videogames with a certain dramatic flair =P
--- End quote ---
I never thought you were. A few replies in this topic made my eyes widen a little in surprise. :)
--- Quote ---What difficulty would a "vet" play these angel challenges on provided they are kind of ALMOST able to Clear N! (without any angel challenges), but not quite, and are keep on trying at it? That's kind of the bar I want to be at atm.
--- End quote ---
I'm not sure whether you've tried much Nightmare, but I find there's a *huge* skill-wall when you start playing it. Seriously, one of the steepest skill-walls I've seen in a videogame. I got to a point where I found ultra-violence games a complete walk in the park before I even managed a single nightmare victory.
On that note, I'd say anyone who can complete nightmare probably finds ALL the 'angel' challenges on any other difficulty very easy. In recent versions, though, we have the arch-angel challenges, which present more of a problem, as do certain dual-angels (marksmanship + berserk).
If you're taking a bite out of angels on HMP, you're probably able to take a bite out of UV, but, if your experience is anything like mine was, N! will be an absolute brick wall round about the first couple of hell knights. [Edit - thinking about it, when I started on Nightmare there was no blowing up corpses, which is a feature I think makes nightmare significantly easier, despite the faster speeds N! enemies got to compensate.]
--- Quote ---I could have made a high power pistol but one of those and 1 speedloader just makes no sense
--- End quote ---
Highpower is very strong for a pistol user for one particular reason - any attack that deals 12 damage knocks a target back. A standard or speedloader pistol, with SoGx3, can only do a max of 11 damage, not enough for knockback. The same character using a highpower pistol will do 12 or more damage nearly every third shot, and fires 2.5 shots per second. Even when you have to reload, this is often enough to keep a target at arm's length and unable to retaliate when corner shooting.
Sorry to refer to that N! AoMr run again, but at 41:31 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=DEGKushTuBQ#t=2491) you can see the kind of thing I'm talking about. There's also knocking creatures into lava, and other fun. :)
In my eyes, the highpower pistol does things that other pistols can't, which makes them invaluable. Don't overlook them. :)
--- Quote ---Anyway, I do not intend to annoy or pester anyone here with questions, but since it's made obvious that they are seen as such I'll stop...I was just as chatty as I was earlier because I figured I owed people like sylph at hte very least my own efforts of communication in return for what I was given =).
--- End quote ---
Very much appreciated. We all enjoy discussing doomrl all day here. I think TheLaptop's post was simply to motivate you into dying a little more liberally. ;)
Tormuse:
--- Quote from: thelaptop on February 25, 2014, 00:28 ---I think Tormuse once said someone told him that he deserved to die in DoomRL. See where that has got him now?
--- End quote ---
For the record, I got good at the game through patience and persistence, not by forum members condemning me to death. ;)
I recognize that it seems to be part of the culture here on this site to look down on people who complain about the game being too hard or "unfair" or whatever, but personally, I think all feelings are valid and feeling upset that you lost a game that was going really well is very understandable and sometimes it's therapeutic to complain about it. :) I don't begrudge anyone for ranting a bit. (That Elite Former Captain thing looked like a frustrating way to die!) :|
--- Quote from: Ghaleon on February 25, 2014, 02:10 ---Anyway, I have questions that if you do not feel like answering, I wont pester anyone by asking again and again the same question. It' snot that I'm lazy and am scared to experiment (trust me I'm not), I just fancy myself as capable of learning both ways. I find it kind of sad that people who learn best via hands-on experience think the whole world must be like them and also learn best hands on...other people learn best with theory. I'm greedy and I wanna learn both ways as fast as possible whatever is more convenient! that's just who I am, I'm happy with either as they come. But please don't go telling me that one way is correct or not. If you do not want to share some information (like I know is the case for dragonslayer sword mechanics and such), I'll respect those wishes.
--- End quote ---
Well said. I'm getting flashbacks to my college days now, because I asked lots of questions in class because that's the way I learn too, and I didn't find out until later that certain classmates resented me for asking so many questions and "making the class go longer." :P Anyway, in my experience, asking questions is the best way to get discussion going because it encourages people to talk to you, and in my opinion, it would be silly to discourage discussion in a discussion forum. (Especially with how quiet the forum has been lately; it could use some livening up) :) I don't know if anyone is actually bothered by your questions, but if they are, I would suggest that they just not follow the thread any more.
As for your "dramatic flair," I just saw that as your personal style and didn't interpret it as you actually crying. It made things more entertaining, actually. :) I would fully encourage more dramatic flair in any mortems you post. :D Speaking of which...
--- Quote from: Ghaleon on February 24, 2014, 18:58 ---anyway, I'll post em up here as soon as I figure out HOW... reading the post mortem forum rules and it's all in imp scratch.
--- End quote ---
I think it's laid out pretty well in the spoiler tag at the top of this post. If you still don't understand after reading that, then I suggest you look at the other threads for clues and model your thread after them.
--- Quote from: Ghaleon on February 25, 2014, 00:25 ---Spoiler (click to show/hide)--------------------------------------------------------------
DoomRL (0.9.9.7) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------
Ghaleon, level 8 Imp Sergeant Major Scout,
was spooked by a lost soul on level 4 of the Deimos base.
He survived 193642 turns and scored 64585 points.
He played for 2 hours, 17 minutes and 58 seconds.
He wasn't afraid to be hurt plenty.
He killed 484 out of 523 hellspawn. (92%)
He held his right to remain violent.
He was an Angel of Marksmanship!
-- Special levels --------------------------------------------
Levels generated : 11
Levels visited : 6
Levels completed : 4
-- Awards ----------------------------------------------------
UAC Star (bronze cluster)
Hell Armorer Badge
Hell Champion Medal
-- Graveyard -------------------------------------------------
###########################################################
...................%.....||...................#####....!%##
..####..........####....}%|..####..%............|.....#####
..###............####....!....#.......##...................
....###..............................###.........####......
....%###.........##########..........##........###.......##
#..........#######........#######..........##..##.......###
##.....#####............ss......#####.....###..........###.
.#######..#...........s.s..s..s.#...#######...........##...
......+...#..............O.s..ss#..../....................#
....../...#...........>......sOs#..../.......|............#
.#######..#..............s...OXs#...#######...........##...
##.....#####..............s..sss#####.....###..%.......###.
#..........#######........#######......#...##..##.......###
..%.##...........##########..........####......###.......##
%....##......................###......###......||####......
.%...##.....####............###...............##...........
.....%.......#####..%........#...............##.......#####
...........######......##............!%}..........#......##
###########################################################
-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------
Health 0/50 Experience 29193/8
ToHit Ranged +0 ToHit Melee +0 ToDmg Ranged +0 ToDmg Melee +0
-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------
Class : Scout
Hellrunner (Level 2)
Son of a gun (Level 3)
Dualgunner (Level 1)
Dodgemaster (Level 1)
Gun Kata (Level 1)
SoG->SoG->DG->SoG->HR->HR->DM->MGK->
-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------
[a] [ Armor ] nothing
[b] [ Weapon ] speedloader pistol (2d4) [6/6]
[c] [ Boots ] grappling steel boots [1/2] (14%)
[d] [ Prepared ] high power combat pistol (3d5) [10/10]
-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------
[a] pistol (2d4) [6/6]
[b] 10mm ammo (x86)
[c] 10mm ammo (x100)
[d] 10mm ammo (x100)
[e] 10mm ammo (x100)
[f] small med-pack
[g] large med-pack
[h] thermonuclear bomb
[i] power mod pack
[j] power mod pack
[k] agility mod pack
[l] bulk mod pack
[m] bulk mod pack
[n] firestorm weapon pack
[o] Arena Master's Staff
-- Resistances -----------------------------------------------
None
-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------
88 former humans
73 former sergeants
17 former captains
79 imps
55 demons
100 lost souls
15 cacodemons
26 hell knights
4 barons of hell
9 arachnotrons
4 former commandos
7 pain elementals
1 revenant
2 bruiser brothers
2 shamblers
1 agony elemental
1 Arena Master
-- History ---------------------------------------------------
He started his journey on the surface of Phobos.
On level 2 he entered Hell's Arena.
He left the Arena as a champion!
On level 5 he stormed the Chained Court.
On level 5 he found the Arena Master's Staff!
He defeated the Hell Arena Master!
On level 7 he sneaked into the Phobos Lab.
He broke through the lab.
On level 8 he encountered the Phobos Anomaly.
On level 8 he assembled a fireproof armor!
On level 9 he entered Deimos Lab.
On level 9 he assembled a high power weapon!
On level 9 he assembled a speedloader pistol!
He destroyed the evil within and reaped the rewards!
On level 10 he assembled a grappling boots!
On level 11 he arrived at the Containment Area.
Not knowing what to do, he left.
On level 12 he romped upon the Abyssal Plains.
On level 12 he finally was spooked by a lost soul.
-- Messages --------------------------------------------------
guns!
You start running!
The missile hits the agony elemental. The missile hits the agony elemental.
The missile hits the agony elemental. The missile hits the agony elemental.
The missile hits the agony elemental. The missile hits the agony elemental.
The agony elemental dies. You dualreload your guns!
The pain elemental spawns lost souls! There is a fire skull lying here.
You picked up a fire skull. The lost soul hits you. The lost soul hits you.
You use a fire skull. The lost soul hits you. Your fireproof red armor is
damaged! The lost soul hits you.
You use a large med-pack. You feel fully healed.
You use a Arena Master's Staff. You raise your arms! The lost soul hits you.
The lost soul hits you. The pain elemental hits you. Your fireproof red armor
is completely destroyed! The pain elemental hits you. The lost soul hits you.
The lost soul hits you. The lost soul hits you. The lost soul hits you. You
die!... Press <Enter>...
-- General ---------------------------------------------------
25 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
22 of those were killed.
3 souls destroyed the Mastermind...
2 killed the bitch and survived.
1 showed that it can outsmart Hell itself.
--------------------------------------------------------------
--- End code ---
--- End quote ---
Oof, I hope you don't mind if I hand out a few tips here, because it looks like you made quite a few mistakes here. :o
First off, Abyssal Plains is doable in AoMr, but I would recommend you only try if you have a phase device to get you out of that Agony Elemental ambush. You do *not* want to get trapped in there and surrounded by bullet-resistant enemies with only bullet weapons. Phase out, keep your distance, and take them on one at a time. The elementals only summon stuff when they can see you, (or you shoot them) so as long as they're out of sight, you should be safe from being overwhelmed.
Secondly, it looks like you were wearing fireproof armour in there. Fireproof armour gives a penalty to melee resistance and you were wearing it while fighting enemies with melee attacks! (Extra owie!) :o
Thirdly, if you must stay in that ambush, go into the corner so that only three of them can hit you at a time. Yeah, I know you were going for the fire skull, but still, being surrounded on all eight sides is bad news. :|
Fourthly, I think it's worth mentioning that you really never need to use the dual-reload feature of your pistols. One of the undocumented features of the Dualgunner trait in this version is that if your equipped weapon and your prepared weapon are both pistols, you can swap them in zero time. This lets you individually reload whichever one you want at any time, which I think might have been handy in this situation.
I hope this helps. :)
--- Quote from: Sylph on February 21, 2014, 11:25 ---7: I wrote a guide a long time ago (years ago), which was well received, especially (wierdly) on forums outside chaosforge!
I've been hugely expanding it, meaning to comprehensively update it, and it's currently close to ready - only a few of the special levels (the ones after the wall), and the parts after 'assemblies' concerning traits, builds, and monsters) are still out of date.
I've hosted the 'half update' version here, as an exclusive special scoop just for you!
http://sylph.me.uk/doomrl/DoomRLGuide.txt
(Hope you feel really special! x)
--- End quote ---
This guide really takes me back! :D Version 0.9.9.1 was the one that I started out on, and it's funny seeing the differences from so long ago reflected in the guide. :) I mean sure, plenty of the game is still the same and is still valid, but there's enough difference that I think if I played 0.9.9.1 again, it would feel like a totally different game. :)
Ghaleon:
--- Quote from: Tormuse on February 26, 2014, 01:34 ---For the record, I got good at the game through patience and persistence, not by forum members condemning me to death. ;)
I recognize that it seems to be part of the culture here on this site to look down on people who complain about the game being too hard or "unfair" or whatever, but personally, I think all feelings are valid and feeling upset that you lost a game that was going really well is very understandable and sometimes it's therapeutic to complain about it. :) I don't begrudge anyone for ranting a bit. (That Elite Former Captain thing looked like a frustrating way to die!) :|
--- End quote ---
There was no intention to even SUGGEST that I thought the game was too hard or unfair though =/ ? Hard or not, I just like to dramatically baw at the horrible fate of my character (provided it was horrible). Difficulty is often a selling point to me, not a problem, I'd elaborate but that tends to go into e-peen measuring territory. But you address something important...The forum culture, I'm new here and I don't really know anyone here, so if someone makes some kind of subtle inside-community-understood comment like "share mortems", and that's somehow supposed to tell me to experiment for myself or something, well, then it'll fly past my head =P.
--- Quote --- I don't know if anyone is actually bothered by your questions, but if they are, I would suggest that they just not follow the thread any more.
--- End quote ---
I like to think that I write posts for the people who want to read em, and if you don't, don't. That said you can never be sure if a new community as a whole you don't know frown upon some things others normally would not, so it doesn't hurt to be careful too IMO.
Oof, I hope you don't mind if I hand out a few tips here, because it looks like you made quite a few mistakes here. :o
--- Quote ---First off, Abyssal Plains is doable in AoMr, but I would recommend you only try if you have a phase device to get you out of that Agony Elemental ambush. You do *not* want to get trapped in there and surrounded by bullet-resistant enemies with only bullet weapons. Phase out, keep your distance, and take them on one at a time. The elementals only summon stuff when they can see you, (or you shoot them) so as long as they're out of sight, you should be safe from being overwhelmed.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, tbh I didn't think of phasing out, not sure why. I'll be sure to do that next time. I KNOW being trapped in there as a bullet-only spec was probably suicide as I mentioned but I wanted to see how bad it was...just so I could gauge future runs if it'd be doable or not given more or less equipment.
--- Quote ---Secondly, it looks like you were wearing fireproof armour in there. Fireproof armour gives a penalty to melee resistance and you were wearing it while fighting enemies with melee attacks! (Extra owie!) :o
--- End quote ---
Oh, it has a penalty to melee? I didn't realize...I was only wearing it though because they already shreded my other armor to bits and I was just desperate for more protection (as in the #, which is 4 on red sooo).
--- Quote ---Thirdly, if you must stay in that ambush, go into the corner so that only three of them can hit you at a time. Yeah, I know you were going for the fire skull, but still, being surrounded on all eight sides is bad news. :|
--- End quote ---
I actually did that, I only moved out later on to finish off and grab the fire skull which I only did because I didn't realize it would do nothing qq. It'd be pretty dumb if I didn't do that before =P...like.. really dumb! Kinda like going there in the first place as a pistol user, but like I said, that was an intentional "see how fast I die" kinda thing. Honestly, I didn't expect to kill the agony elemental at all when I started, so I considered the experiment a success somewhat.
--- Quote ---Fourthly, I think it's worth mentioning that you really never need to use the dual-reload feature of your pistols. One of the undocumented features of the Dualgunner trait in this version is that if your equipped weapon and your prepared weapon are both pistols, you can swap them in zero time. This lets you individually reload whichever one you want at any time, which I think might have been handy in this situation.
--- End quote ---
Oh you mean it has a built in juggler thing for pistols only? I did NOT know that. Thanks a bunch! As for the Agony elemental, I never actually dual reloaded around it, I think it automatically says you dual reload when gun kata reloads for you after killing something...Unless you were referring to that bit about the elite captain, I think I manually dual reloaded there yes *hangs head in shame*... If only I knew they could have laser guns sometimes (increased accuracy at long range, bypasses my armor's bullet resistance, etc, etc).
speaking of which, I just found out for myself in this game that not only can those human dudes pick up loot (I always knew this), and use med kits (knew this too), but if they pick up armor...it actually affects their stats! I blasted a non-elite former sergeant point blank with a combat shotgun like 3 times, and he was still not even almost dead. I thought "this guy must be wearing some ridiculous armor"...sure enough he was (bullet-proof armor).
But yeah, I'll be glad to know about the free mini-juggler thing with that pistol trait.
Anyway since evidently some people don't mind (yay), Another random question, That angelic armor...It seems kinda redundant to me, is there some kind of hidden use I'm not aware of? I mean I can see it's great for melee and bullet resistance, but you get it so late in the game that you are unlikely to see a single former human at all, so bullet/shrapnel resistance is useless (well bullet good for spider queen I guess but she's a complete pushover anyway. The melee thing would be good for actual melee players I suppose but again, it's really late and just seems like a waste somewhat that you can't get this armor BEFORE the unholy cathedral.
Anyway I cleared another HMP. I chose kinda weird traits at the start (hellrunner first, then dodgemaster, then intuition, then finesse, etc). Because I wanted to be able to select gun kata OR shottyman depending on what I got by the armory. Armory had an assault shotgun AND a plasma shotgun (the cover killing part, and ammo difficulty makes it kinda lame but I actually made good use of it when I was low on shells, and for bum-rushing archvilles before they could do anything, etc), so I ended up going shottyman. An otherwise uneventful clear but I thought it was cute that on the 2nd last floor, I got a "Yes, it actually happened. Hell froze over!" event thing =P
Now I'm trying a 100 floor challenge (am at 52 atm), using the same spec, only I dragged out the "neither spec" traits for longer because it took FOREVER to get anything...finally I found a super shotgun so I went shotgun spec, if only I got a nano mod instead of this crummy old sniper mod (sniper mod for shotgun spec...yay). Unfortunately I'm now just going for staircases rather than killing everything because of ammo issues, and yes, I'm making sure I'm blowing stuff up with barrels and rocketlaunchers if I hear archvilles.
Anyway, thanks for the encouragement, I continue to enjoy the game =P
Sylph:
I like your switching build! Good thinking there. :)
Have you played many chaingun games? Pistols have always been like a weaker version of the chaingun...
--- Quote ---if only I got a nano mod instead of this crummy old sniper mod (sniper mod for shotgun spec...yay).
--- End quote ---
Have you discovered the plasmatic shrapnel assembly yet?
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