DoomRL > Discussion

Long time, no see, DoomRL fans. Lots of questions :D

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bolt_thundara:
I doubt I'm remembered at all, but a few years ago I created a playthru thread for this game http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,6770.0.html. I was, and still am, a noob but I had alot of fun with it.

Flash forward almost three years and I got a new computer! When transferring files, I rediscovered this game and started playing it again. I am consistently getting my ass handed to me, mostly due to sloppy play, but I'm getting better all the time. Anyway, on to the questions.

To start with, I need advice on armor. I am consistently constructing Tactical Boots now (first two A mods go to boots right away), but I'm still struggling with what to wear for armor. I'm rolling with two different play styles right now, MAD shotguns and Sharpshooter pistols. I've tried Tactical armor, but I always get chewed up with no levels in Hellrunner/Dodgmaster. My best runs so far I simply modded some red armors with B and T early to save space, later converting them to Fireproof red and Ballistic red once their durability wore down (the free red from Phobos Anomaly lasted me a long time B modded). I eventually died due to being too stupid to heal before going down a floor, but hey that's not my armor's fault xD

Anyway, what should I be looking for? I seem to always be toting around a backpack full of mods with no use for them, esp on MAD runs, hoping to find armors worth modding out to save my bacon.

Second question is regarding traits. Obviously when running MAD or Sharpshooter I want to spec in everything leading directly to the Master trait. This is VERY restrictive for Sharpshooter, and only slightly less so for MAD. No worries, comes with the territory. My question is what traits should I be looking at AFTER I grab my Master? MAD is HIGHLY restricting (no hellrunner OR Finnesse ;_; ) and Sharpshooter only slightly less so. I've honestly only even gotten Sharpshooter once before getting blown away by the double Shambler fight in Deimos lab, much less any traits after it. On my MAD runs, I usually grab Ironman (it's the trait I can see the most results out of immediately), hoping the extra HP will keep me moving. I usually grab a second rank of Badass at level 5 as well (typically going Reloader > Reloader > Shottyman > Badass > Badass > MAD > ???) but I'm slowly realizing that I would probably be MUCH better off with either getting Ironman sooner or simply getting Tough As Nails.

Side question, but related. How does Son Of A Bitch affect shotgun damage. Adding +1 to 8d3 sounds.... underwhelming to be honest, but adding +1 per die sounds broken as fuck on the other side. Is it simply a trait that is more useful with weapons that pump out larger numbers of low damage shots (notably chain weapons)?


TL;DR version:

1) What should I be doing for armor?
2) Good trait builds for MAD and Sharpshooter runs?
3) How does SoB affect different types of weapons?

papilio:
For MAD, whizkid is blocked;

weapon : Jackhammer (if possible), super shotgun(P) (if possible), assault shotgun(P) (if possible), tactical shotgun

armor : red armor(P), red armor(O) (if possible), powered red armor (= red armor+PN)
tower shield is simply a crap.

boots : plasteel boots(A)


Trait builds for MAD/MSs:

MAD : Rel-Rel-SM-Bad-TaN-MAD-TaN-Bad-(Iro or SoB, whatever you want)

MSs : SoG-SoG-SoG-EE-EE-EE-MSs-WK-WK-HR-HR-DM-SoG-SoG-HR-(whatever you want)




SoB is good for every type of weapons, but it is tended to be used for rapidfire weapon based build.

SoB for melee : useless (Bru1 is better than SoB3)
SoB for pistol : useless (SoG1 is better than SoB1)
SoB for shotguns : not bad, but not that worthy. 8d3+1 makes little difference between 8d3
SoB for rapidfire : great. SoB2 makes plasma rifle 1d7 (1~7) → 2+1d7 (3~9) for each shot

Evilpotatoe:
1)
For armors, you basically have to choose between "dodge" and "tank".

* If you often get hit, P-modded red is probably the greateast usual suit you'll get.  (The ideal is AOP, or Powered-red, +P if possible)
* If you manage to get hit rarely, you can afford to use weaker suits.  I stopped using tactical armors, but usually play with green (both have give a good movespeed, a the cost of a dubious protection).
Your best suit when playing that way is a phaseshift (with AOP, of course :))Overall, I wouldn't advise to B-mod an armor, since it costs movespeed.  Unless you want to make it nanofiber, but IMO, they are worthless without an added P (so I'd forget it for MAD)

Don't underestimate the movespeed. There's a reason why I prefer green over blue or red : it makes a huge difference !
I often switch to red around hell, since revenants (and mancubi) can be deadly, but by that time, I usually have A-modded tac boots, and A modded armor.

And yep, outside of AO100+, I always go for Tac boots (+A : I don't mod assemblies without WK2 usually).



2)
Not much advices to give here, but you might consider playing masterless.  As you noticed, masteries can be quite... constraining.
About MAD, I think I'd pick BER, but I guess anything is OK.
For MSS, I'd say WK (since gun really suck, and some improvements really help), then, anything.


3)
SOB is crap for melee (and BFGs :o))
SOB can be paired with SOG, but I doubt it's really worth it if you go pistols only.  If you also use shotguns or rapid fire, it can be worth it... but then, I'm not sure you should pick SOG :)
SOB is of course very efficient with rapid fire, since it's what it has been designed for.  Just skip the 5th level to avoid getting knockback.
SOB is quite good with shotguns, but I'm not sure it's necessary with a MAD build, which already gives an insane dmg output.

I consider SOB is "the best skill". Well, this is quite subjective, of course, but it looks like the most efficient to play damageless, which is more or less what most angels challenges is about, so I ended-up picking it on every run.
Here is a sample of SOB effect on shotguns :
I always play with shotguns, and now try to get Hell's arena pwnage medal with each of my N! runs.  Since I suck, I use INT2+SOB1, but I often fail at knocking some monster back, and get hit or have to run because of my crappy damages.

* This doesn't happen when I play HA with SOB2, since failing to knockback is really rare, and would "never" happen with SOB3.
* Without SOB, I just have too much difficulties to knock-back even a simple demon.  I often get hit, and can't abuse of cornershooting, which makes the game harder and more complicated (like... needing to think and have good placements instead of just mindlessly alternating phases pressing "f f r" (kill) and ", 5" (stand still waiting for xp to come))
Its worth noting that a P roughly equals two levels of SOB for a shotgun, but I still love that early SOB2 or 3, since you get it WAY before the P mods, and it stacks anyway (try an elephant gun, or a P3 regular shotty, and you'll understand how fun it can be :)
Overall, about shotguns :

* I personally stick with regular shotty all game long, but the best is the tactical one, which is more versatile.  I just hate having to pump (and have crappy damages) until it's fully modded.
* Assault is the theorical best, of course, but you'll often find it too late, and it kinda needs the P to balance that missing dice anyway, so Tac is great enough.
* Super shotty and Jackhammer are in separate leagues.  Both too rare to be reliable, but they give great damages (I don't really use either of them anymore, but this is another story :p)
* Plasma is... well, good for gibbing the mortuary (and maybe for the reloading-bug-abuse), but crap elsewhere, since it ruins your covers, and eats way too much plasma.

bolt_thundara:
Thanks for the quick replies! This will help quite a bit.

I do want to touch on one thing briefly and that's my use of B modded reds. I'm aware how important move speed is, and I try to limit their use. I mainly grab them early on if possible specifically because of Former Sergants, where dodging is not possible, especially inside the Military Base vs the Elites. I'll usually try to lure those into melee range, but that's not always easy. If I get lucky and find an early red armor in a vault (or the guaranteed one in the Anomaly) this can help soak up a lot of damage if I can just stand my ground with a tactical shotty and quickly blow stuff away (since the move speed penalty doesn't kick in unless I actually move).

Once enemies actually start packing real damage (starting with Hell Knights), this stops being effective and I either finish modding them to Fireproof or Ballistic, which cuts the move speed penalty back to the base for red. Still pretty high, but dramatically lessened with Tactical boots, and the protection offered by a Ballistic red is significant until you start fighting Archviles/Revenants/Mancubi. Just gotta remember to swap before heading to the City of Skulls xD

bolt_thundara:
... I just found a Super Shotgun and an O mod in Hell's Armory, and Phaseshift Armor damn near next to my spawn point on the next floor down. Is it my birthday??

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