DRL > Discussion

Ideas for nerfing Int(3) and AoB.

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DaEezT:

--- Quote from: Styro on April 10, 2007, 08:38 ---I think that the other thing people are forgetting in the "AoB is overpowered" discussion is that most people have only played it on the easiest level (Medium). Of course it is going to be relatively easy. I encourage everyone that thinks AoB should be nerfed to play it on Hard or UV. I don't think you will want it nerfed anymore. Of course it is extremely difficult to get to the chainsaw, but it only becomes "playable" at that point instead of a "cakewalk".

--- End quote ---
I disagree on the difficulty part. Higher difficulty also means (much) more XP and more ammo spawns. I personally found doing AoMr runs on UV easier than on M (pre weapons mods that is). The problem with the difficulties is, that the dangerous monsters still spawn quite late and the biggest part of the mass is still cannon fodder.
The difficulty level only really affects how tough the first ~5 levels are, after that it's not really much of a difference any more.


--- Quote from: Styro on April 10, 2007, 08:38 ---I do think that AoB should be guaranteed a knife in the starting room of level 2, though to make the earlygame less luck-dependant. I don't want the player to start with a knife, because I like the need to punch your way through the first level. :)

--- End quote ---
I said something similar once or twice, but nobody listens :p
I'd go one step further and let the AoB player start with a (advanced?)knife, just like the AoMr player starts with an advanced pistol.

Styro:

--- Quote from: DaEezT on April 10, 2007, 11:20 ---I disagree on the difficulty part. Higher difficulty also means (much) more XP and more ammo spawns. I personally found doing AoMr runs on UV easier than on M (pre weapons mods that is). The problem with the difficulties is, that the dangerous monsters still spawn quite late and the biggest part of the mass is still cannon fodder.
The difficulty level only really affects how tough the first ~5 levels are, after that it's not really much of a difference any more.

--- End quote ---

I agree with this except for AoB games. In Medium AoB games, by the time you run into Barons you have some really great skills. In UV you barely have any yet because you have just recently picked up the chainsaw.

Zarin:

--- Quote from: DaEezT on April 10, 2007, 11:20 ---
I disagree on the difficulty part. Higher difficulty also means (much) more XP and more ammo spawns. I personally found doing AoMr runs on UV easier than on M (pre weapons mods that is). The problem with the difficulties is, that the dangerous monsters still spawn quite late and the biggest part of the mass is still cannon fodder.

--- End quote ---
Well... How about knifing your way through (or even simply evading on your mad run to the stairs) some Hell Knights on level 3?  They are UV regulars there :).  Hell, even simple sergeants can be deadly for an AoB if they are spawned often enough - and on UV they are.
So please don't go nerfing AoB.  At most make the ultimate spoily weapon miss slightly more or feel less protected with it.

FWIW,
    Zarin.

Fingerzam:

--- Quote from: Zeb on April 09, 2007, 18:49 ---With the "equal footing" comment, I though the point of AoB is that it would be a lot harder than "everyone else" to beat, not equally hard. :-/ And the medkit thing is AoB-only, so if the Cathedral is built for melee characters shouldn't the level be changed so that it can be beaten by melee characters not undergoing the AoB challenge? Otherwise you have an entire level built just for one "challenge" that ends up making the "challenge" easier. :-/

--- End quote ---

The medkit berserking isn't as essential as you guys make it sound... I'm no Blade and I've cleared the Unholy Cathedral without a single medkit in a non-AoB game. You're almost 100% guaranteed to start berserking on the way if you have Berserker. The more levels in it the better, as you'll get it quicker and it'll replenish often.

So taking out the berserking bonus from large medkits won't ruin the challenge, simply make it more challenging. Though after you get the spear, the game will still be a cakewalk.

Blade:
About Intuition - i'm now playing exploitless game(game without exploiting AI) in Non-Beta 0985 version(so with old, not nerfed version of Intution), and i can say that without ability to fire outside LOS Intuition*3 becomes not worth picking. Int*2, yes, still good enough, but it's better to pick something more usefull than Int*3. I think that with good AI Intuition*3(not Int*2 nor Int*1) should have an additional ability to locate stairs, this will make it at least a little useful.

About AoB - we have such graph of difficulty on UV

OMG          |     -----*
Really hard |   - 
Pretty hard |-         
Medium      |                              --
Pretty easy|         
Easy          |               --------**
Cakewalk   |                                    -------***
                |_______________________________
                  1 2 3 4 5  CC 6-15     UC  16-25

So imho we need to flat this graph ("*" means problems with difficlty).

* - i prefer Advanced knife at the start.))
** - i agree with Fingerzam that bonus from medikits and large globes should be removed. But this will force player to pick at least Berserk*1 to pass UC. Anyway, i don't think that it's soo bad.
***  - hmm, some nerfing of LS will do the trick.

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