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 81 
 on: August 25, 2023, 11:37 
Started by Icy - Last post by Omega Tyrant
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Regarding Every Soldier's Medal, I wouldn't be opposed to making it what Brick Silver Badge currently is. It would need a name change though since "Every Soldier" is used because of Angel of Humanity. How about "Soldier's Medal - Clear The Wall/Containment Area on Angel of Berserk, Angel of Marksmanship, or Angel of Shotgunnery"?

Doesn't sound too fitting of a name but I'm not too plussed about what the name is changed to with this proposal, so I'll go with it if no better suggestion is provided.

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Regarding Thomas's Medal, if you prefer it switched with Everyman Platinum Badge, we can change them so that the proposed Thomas's Medal is completing Angel of Humanity on Ultra-Violence, and have Everyman Platinum Badge be unchanged with completing Angel of Humanity as a conqueror (except for now disallowing Dual-Angel games). My only suggestion is that Thomas's Medal would need to block Angel of Confidence and Angel of Overconfidence. I actually really like the idea of switching them because then Everyman Platinum Badge can block Dual-Angel challenges and be much more appropriately challenging, and it goes more canonically with Everyman Diamond Badge, which is the same but on Ultra-Violence.

I think having it be beating UV in AoH would be too plain, and so prefer my suggestion. But I would like to hear from Kornel or someone else in the know on the reasoning behind the medal's existence and why it's named after Thomas, so we can ensure coming up with something that maintains the spirit of the medal. Either way I agree with having it and the Everyman badges block those Dual-Angel challenges.

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Regarding ammo rooms, there are generated by rolling 1d3 + dlevel. 0-4 is Bullets, 5-10 is Shells, 11-12 is Rockets, and 13+ is Cells. What if instead of the dlevel formula, it was something like: 2% 1d2 Cell Boxes, 2% 1d2 Rocket Boxes, 3% 1d2 Shell Boxes, 3% 1d2 Bullet Boxes, 20% 1d3 + 2 Cells, 20% 1d3 + 2 Rockets, 25% 1d3 + 2 Shells, and 25% 1d3 + 2 Bullets? This would have some pretty wild impacts on the game with Cells being a fair bit harder to find with other weights overtaking the current 100% in deep floors, there would be more emphasis on ammo boxes being available (which may be hurting Reloader trait), and the early game could get wild with lucky ammo boxes.

I would put a Power Battery at 1%, to be consistent with its current rarity compared to other ammo boxes, with that remaining 1% being thrown wherever else. Otherwise I agree with this.

 82 
 on: August 24, 2023, 19:26 
Started by Icy - Last post by Icy
(Video)

This was a great run with no major time losses, and lots of great luck! There were many Berserk Packs, some Invulnerability, many floors with nearby stairs, and not too much issue with going through each floor. The other big time save was finding a nuke for a fast ending against the Spider Mastermind. Very satisfied with this time! I'm sure the spare 20 seconds would make Nightmare feasible...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

 83 
 on: August 24, 2023, 17:31 
Started by Icy - Last post by Icy
Regarding Unexplored Star, that's a good point that Explorer Badge doesn't have a difficulty restriction. Let's go with no difficulty restriction for Unexplored Star too.

Regarding Every Soldier's Medal, I wouldn't be opposed to making it what Brick Silver Badge currently is. It would need a name change though since "Every Soldier" is used because of Angel of Humanity. How about "Soldier's Medal - Clear The Wall/Containment Area on Angel of Berserk, Angel of Marksmanship, or Angel of Shotgunnery"?

Regarding Thomas's Medal, if you prefer it switched with Everyman Platinum Badge, we can change them so that the proposed Thomas's Medal is completing Angel of Humanity on Ultra-Violence, and have Everyman Platinum Badge be unchanged with completing Angel of Humanity as a conqueror (except for now disallowing Dual-Angel games). My only suggestion is that Thomas's Medal would need to block Angel of Confidence and Angel of Overconfidence. I actually really like the idea of switching them because then Everyman Platinum Badge can block Dual-Angel challenges and be much more appropriately challenging, and it goes more canonically with Everyman Diamond Badge, which is the same but on Ultra-Violence.

Regarding ammo rooms, there are generated by rolling 1d3 + dlevel. 0-4 is Bullets, 5-10 is Shells, 11-12 is Rockets, and 13+ is Cells. What if instead of the dlevel formula, it was something like: 2% 1d2 Cell Boxes, 2% 1d2 Rocket Boxes, 3% 1d2 Shell Boxes, 3% 1d2 Bullet Boxes, 20% 1d3 + 2 Cells, 20% 1d3 + 2 Rockets, 25% 1d3 + 2 Shells, and 25% 1d3 + 2 Bullets? This would have some pretty wild impacts on the game with Cells being a fair bit harder to find with other weights overtaking the current 100% in deep floors, there would be more emphasis on ammo boxes being available (which may be hurting Reloader trait), and the early game could get wild with lucky ammo boxes.

 84 
 on: August 24, 2023, 05:31 
Started by Icy - Last post by Omega Tyrant
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Regarding Unexplored Star, if it didn't have a difficulty restriction, it would be possible to play on ITYTD, and even HTNR is pretty easy. That said, it couldn't hurt to have some easier new medals.

The idea is mainly a reverse-Conqueror, which itself doesn't have any difficulty restrictions; a bonus acknowledgement for doing a particular feat in a run that made it more difficult regardless of difficulty, which then could be similarly tacked on as a secondary requirement for certain badges (as in the proposed Berserker Diamond change, but perhaps a couple other badges could require it too). I suppose you could restrict ITYTD from getting it though, since not all special levels are available there.

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Regarding "Gatekeeper Angelic Badge", the Spider Mastermind is cake by using Intuition and cornershooting it to death. The AI stuck strat is useful when you don't have Intuition, such as for builds with it blocked, or a challenge like Everyman Angelic Badge. I think your suggestion would be way too easy for an Angelic Badge as there are a bunch of players who have done Elite + Veteran Angelic Badge combos without extensive difficulty. Gatekeeper Angelic Badge would really just devolve into finding Invulnerability on floor 7 nearby the exit, having Dodgemaster, and having Intuition.

I'll take your word for it.

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Regarding Every Soldier's Medal, I can agree it could be replaced with a different idea. Got any good ones?

We could just replace it with one of the prior suggested new medals, or if Kornel tells us of any lore reason behind this medal's existence, perhaps we could think up a new one that keeps the spirit but is more special to actually get. Conversely, perhaps we take current Brick Silver and change it into a medal that replaces this, it always seemed more fitting as a medal challenge.

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Regarding Thomas's Medal, I wouldn't be opposed to swapping it out either. Keep in mind though that Everyman Platinum Badge is suggested to be changed to simply completing Angel of Humanity on Ultra-Violence, so they're not the same if that goes through. I believe the medal is also designed after a player, so he might not be thrilled with it getting changed or removed.

I'm aware of your proposal to change Everyman Platinum, I just prefer how it currently is, which I find to be a more unique challenge among Platinums, particularly how it's one of the very few you can still get on HNTR difficulty but isn't unfitting to be available at that difficulty (and either way I would still say Thomas's Medal should get changed). As for who Thomas is and why this medal is named after him, Kornel would need to expound on that as I'm not aware of the lore behind it, though I believe my suggestion of extending the medal to cover other challenges where Conqueror runs are especially difficult would still maintain the spirit of the medal.

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Regarding ammo rooms, I agree. There are lots of ways this could be changed and weighted. I think that it should be prevented of giving Rockets or Cells too early though. Perhaps as a rare weight, they could also be mixed, and also include ammo boxes?

You can keep the current setup where rockets and plasma don't start showing up until a minimum floor, just they won't be the only ammo that shows up once you get deep enough for them to appear. But I also wouldn't mind just letting them be able to appear whenever though, it does suck finding a very early Rocket Launcher in a vault and then having no ammo to actually use it until later Phobos. Ammo boxes being rare drops in them would be neat too I think.

 85 
 on: August 23, 2023, 19:38 
Started by Icy - Last post by Icy
(Video)

While attempting a sub minute speedrun, I ended up getting a slightly slower full win here, beating JC and surviving in 1:24. I actually had a run prior to this that was 1:33 that had an immediate Trigun within vision at the start which also got me a full win.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

 86 
 on: August 23, 2023, 19:35 
Started by Icy - Last post by Icy
(Video)

Decided to do some speedrunning tonight and wanted to try to win a game under a minute and eventually got this run. It essentially devolves into close stairs, fast movement, and a lucky nuke somewhere.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

 87 
 on: August 23, 2023, 17:10 
Started by Icy - Last post by Icy
Regarding Unexplored Star, if it didn't have a difficulty restriction, it would be possible to play on ITYTD, and even HTNR is pretty easy. That said, it couldn't hurt to have some easier new medals.

Regarding "Gatekeeper Angelic Badge", the Spider Mastermind is cake by using Intuition and cornershooting it to death. The AI stuck strat is useful when you don't have Intuition, such as for builds with it blocked, or a challenge like Everyman Angelic Badge. I think your suggestion would be way too easy for an Angelic Badge as there are a bunch of players who have done Elite + Veteran Angelic Badge combos without extensive difficulty. Gatekeeper Angelic Badge would really just devolve into finding Invulnerability on floor 7 nearby the exit, having Dodgemaster, and having Intuition.

Regarding Every Soldier's Medal, I can agree it could be replaced with a different idea. Got any good ones?

Regarding Thomas's Medal, I wouldn't be opposed to swapping it out either. Keep in mind though that Everyman Platinum Badge is suggested to be changed to simply completing Angel of Humanity on Ultra-Violence, so they're not the same if that goes through. I believe the medal is also designed after a player, so he might not be thrilled with it getting changed or removed.

Regarding ammo rooms, I agree. There are lots of ways this could be changed and weighted. I think that it should be prevented of giving Rockets or Cells too early though. Perhaps as a rare weight, they could also be mixed, and also include ammo boxes?

 88 
 on: August 23, 2023, 07:01 
Started by Icy - Last post by Omega Tyrant
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I was doing some thinking and realized my proposed time limit for Speedrunner Angelic Badge of 10 minutes would actually be a lot tighter for the potential new version with Scout's stair sense nerfed and Intuition also nerfed. If these changes go through, I think this badge should be 12 minutes.

I agree with this, I would rather err on the side of caution with ensuring this badge doesn't remain impossible. If 12 minutes ends up proving too easy, it can always be lowered in a later version.

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Regarding the medal for clearing a boss floor, I think it depends on how well a game is going because generally when you get far enough that boss floors could start appearing, you should be pretty well-equipped. Nonetheless, if you think it would be hard, then I'd agree to have it. For the name, I considered something like "Boss Slayer Cross", but was wondering if it would be silly with the rhyming. I'm fine either or.

I think you will usually be able to handle them by the time they can appear, but having to play on at least UV difficulty for them to even appear, the luck needed to find any of them, and them having the potential to get gnarly if you don't have the right equipment/build, I think makes it plenty hard enough without restricting it to just Cyberdemon levels.

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I like your medal idea for skipping all bonus floors, but I think it would require restrictions to be Ultra-Violence, and also not allowing Angel of Confidence, Angel of Overconfidence, Angel of 100, or Archangel of 666. How about we scrap my "Gambler's Star" idea (which thinking about it more would probably be pretty trivial), and go with yours with a name like "Unexplored Star"?

I don't think restricting it to UV/N! is necessary, but yeah restricting it from those challenges is a must. I also agree with replacing the idea of "Gambler Star" and your proposed name unless someone else has a better name for it.

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Regarding Gatekeeper Badges, we can leave Platinum and Diamond as is and just change Gold. However, I disagree with the idea for Gatekeeper Angelic Badge as that would mostly just be Phobos Anomaly as Tower of Babel and Dis are pretty easy to clear without damage. I also think all Angelics should require winning the game and not just achieving something mid-game.

I don't think Dis would be so simple to no damage if the Mastermind's AI is fixed so you can't get it stuck, as you proposed, and after beating Anomaly damageless, you would then need to not choke the run the rest of the way on Nightmare difficulty. Also beating Dis wins the game, so you would have to win the game to get this badge :p

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I like your idea about Heroic Angelic Badge. Initially, I thought it would be too easy since most medals aren't too hard, but thinking about it more, 50 challenges of varying difficulty is still tough to do them all, and I didn't realize how few players had them all. To fit it into the 25 badge count, how about we scrap "Humanity Angelic Badge"? I think having only one Archangel Angelic Badge is a nicer look and that's the only challenge that has two at the moment.

If Kornel decides to go with 25 badges for each tier, I would agree with scrapping the Humanity Angelic idea for Heroic Angelic

__________

Got yet another few suggestions I thought about.

*Replace Every Soldier's Medal or change its criteria

Currently, this medal requires beating The Wall in Angel of Humanity, but unless I'm missing some ancient Chaosforge lore behind this medal, I don't get why it exists. Beating The Wall in AoH isn't anything special to begin with, most other special levels are going to be much harder in AoH. There's also already two other medals for AoH, while most other challenges don't have specific medals for them; I would rather have more generically applicable medals, or if one must remain restricted to a challenge, make it an actually special feat (I think Spider's Killer Cross is ok in this regard, because that level does get a lot more imposing when you have so little max HP to work with). If this medal is to remain as is, it at least needs to include Containment Area too, because it makes no sense to exclude what is essentially a harder version of The Wall, and it makes this medal needlessly annoying to get when half your AoH runs won't even have a chance to get it (though I much prefer just removing it or changing its criteria into something completely different).

*Replace Thomas's Medal or change its criteria

Icy's suggestion to remove this medal's redundancy with Humanity Platinum's was to change that badge's criteria, but I would rather that badge remain as is and instead replace or change this medal. Like I said before, I don't like how there are multiple medals for just AoH, and I also don't really understand why AoH gets its own medal for a Conqueror run, when many other challenges are around as hard or even harder to do the same in (like I'll do a Conqueror run in AoH over AoD and AoRA any day). Perhaps change Thomas's Medal to completing a Conqueror run in any of the following challenges: AoH, AoP, AoD, AoMs, AoI, and AoRA (as well as in each of their respective Archangel challenges). I think each of these challenges are especially difficult for Conqueror runs, so completing that feat should be awarded, and it would make this medal not laser-focused to a single challenge.

*Make ammo rooms more randomized

Currently there is little-to-no randomization with the ammo you get from ammo rooms; all ammo that spawns in an ammo room is the same instead of being able to be a variety, and the ammo that does spawn is static based on the dlevel. Egregiously, once you reach dlevel 12, ammo rooms will only ever have plasma cells from that point forward, which constitutes half the standard game and near 90% of A100. Aside from making little sense why ammo rooms are this restricted in their randomization, it also makes these rooms less useful than they could be. It's particularly annoying to shotgun and pistol builds, whose primary ammo becomes more scarce later in the game, and so end up usually becoming reliant on Formers to maintain their ammo as a result, sometimes even having to farm them near Archviles to not run out of ammo. Ammo rooms being able to have all types of ammo throughout the game will make them useful more often, and will help make the aforementioned shotgun and pistol builds less reliant on the ammo drops of Formers in the lategame.

 89 
 on: August 22, 2023, 17:25 
Started by Icy - Last post by Icy
I was doing some thinking and realized my proposed time limit for Speedrunner Angelic Badge of 10 minutes would actually be a lot tighter for the potential new version with Scout's stair sense nerfed and Intuition also nerfed. If these changes go through, I think this badge should be 12 minutes.

Regarding the medal for clearing a boss floor, I think it depends on how well a game is going because generally when you get far enough that boss floors could start appearing, you should be pretty well-equipped. Nonetheless, if you think it would be hard, then I'd agree to have it. For the name, I considered something like "Boss Slayer Cross", but was wondering if it would be silly with the rhyming. I'm fine either or.

I like your medal idea for skipping all bonus floors, but I think it would require restrictions to be Ultra-Violence, and also not allowing Angel of Confidence, Angel of Overconfidence, Angel of 100, or Archangel of 666. How about we scrap my "Gambler's Star" idea (which thinking about it more would probably be pretty trivial), and go with yours with a name like "Unexplored Star"?

I also like your idea of changing Berserker Diamond Badge being Angel of Berserk on Nightmare with 60% kills to Angel of Berserk on Nightmare with the above medal.

Regarding Gatekeeper Badges, we can leave Platinum and Diamond as is and just change Gold. However, I disagree with the idea for Gatekeeper Angelic Badge as that would mostly just be Phobos Anomaly as Tower of Babel and Dis are pretty easy to clear without damage. I also think all Angelics should require winning the game and not just achieving something mid-game.

Regarding Hunter Platinum Badge, I'm still definitely for it. Not all cheese can be avoided, and if a player goes through the game thoroughly, they might not have to grind a respawn anyway.

Regarding the Apostle, I forgot he restores HP over time. I suppose you're right though that there should be some risk involved and also that camping would not be a good strategy most of the time (depending on what kind of a floor you get). I'm for both of your changes after thinking about it more.

I like your idea about Heroic Angelic Badge. Initially, I thought it would be too easy since most medals aren't too hard, but thinking about it more, 50 challenges of varying difficulty is still tough to do them all, and I didn't realize how few players had them all. To fit it into the 25 badge count, how about we scrap "Humanity Angelic Badge"? I think having only one Archangel Angelic Badge is a nicer look and that's the only challenge that has two at the moment.

 90 
 on: August 22, 2023, 03:49 
Started by Icy - Last post by Omega Tyrant
Looking forward to your second compilation post.

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Regarding my proposed Cyberdemon Cross medal, it is a good point that it could be very luck-based since they're very rare and it's common to go through Archangel of 666 without finding any. However, expanding it to various bosses does make it a bit too easy I think. It's also worth noting that there are no special level feeling messages for Agony Elementals and Lava Elementals (although this could be another feature to add). How about instead we have "Boss Slayer Medal - Clear a boss complex on Angel of 100 / Archangel of 666 on Ultra-Violence"?

I would disagree on it being too easy, since you can still go an entire A100 run on UV without finding any of the boss levels, and you still need to clear them if you do get lucky enough to find one. I would agree with adding special level feeling messages for Agony Elemental and Lava Elemental caves, as well as the proposed name, but maybe "Boss Slayer Cross" instead to make it sound a bit more special?

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We can scrap Purity Medal and Shottyman Medal as proposed. How about "Gambler's Star - Pull 100 levers or more in Angel of 100 / Archangel of 666", and "Vash's Cross - Kill the Spider Mastermind using Trigun's Angel Arm"?

Those sound alright if no better ideas are proposed. One alternative idea I just thought of is a medal for beating the game without entering any of the special levels; considering there should always be at least one special level, if not quite a few, that are easy for your build, not entering any of them is going to make the game harder without that extra EXP and guaranteed loot. Even stair divers would have to miss out on the Chainsaw + berserk stack from The Chained Court and being able to take shortcuts through certain special levels to exit floors faster. If this medal is added, perhaps you could also change Berserker Diamond to beating N! with this medal, as winning without the early guaranteed Chainsaw nor Spear/Scythe would make things a lot harder, but you will no longer need to grind kills (but would it become too hard for a Diamond?).

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For Brick Silver Badge, what if it were instead "Clear The Wall/Containment Area on Angel of Light Travel"? It would make it appropriately challenging by forcing the player to bring a Rocket Launcher and some Rockets, taking up a couple of precious inventory slots, followed by still needing room to clear it after.

If it were to remain a Silver badge, I would be fine with this, but if it's turned into a Gold badge, I would be fine with it remaining as is.

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Part of my personal vision with Angelic Badges would be that top players should be able to achieve a large number of them if they have enough grit and committment to go for them, but it would most likely be too time-consuming to attempt all 25. It keeps the upper limit of the game open without being impossibly hard as it currently is. It could be really cool to see a dedicated god to the game chip away and get into the 20s. Alongside that, many different players could have different combinations in their collection, instead of right now devolving into getting Shotgunnery, then Lightfoot, then branching off a tiny bit from there, and then getting stuck.

I agree with this philosophy; true 100% completion should be an extremely lofty goal, but still achievable to anyone that really wants it or after a very long time, rather than being outright impossible as it is now. Also badge collections should definitely be more unique among players as you stated.

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Regarding Gatekeeper Platinum and Diamond Badges, I disagree with swapping them. Platinum with passing Phobos Anomaly without damage on Nightmare is basically just finding Invulnerability nearby on floor 7 and zipping through. Diamond with clearing it on Ultra-Violence and then also Tower of Babel is generally harder to do. However, it could be more canonical if Gatekeeper Badges didn't include Tower of Babel. What if Gatekeeper Diamond Badge was clearing Phobos Anomaly on Nightmare without taking damage?

I overlooked that current Gatekeeper Diamond requires actually clearing Anomaly, while Gatekeeper Platinum doesn't, my mistake. If they were swapped around, then yes the new Gatekeeper Diamond would have to require clearing it in addition to no damage. However, after thinking it through, I would be fine leaving them as is; having a few easier Diamonds isn't necessarily a bad thing, and there should be a decent amount of Diamonds that are obtainable without playing N!, given a lot of players prefer playing UV.

Building off this, perhaps we could make a "Gatekeeper Angelic", that requires clearing all of Anomaly, Babel, and Dis without any damage on N!? While nuking any of them wouldn't count.

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I like your suggestion for Hunter Platinum Badge, although it likely will just turn into cheesing a respawn near the end of the game, but that's on the player if they decide to do that.

I can see wanting to discourage grinding respawns, mainly suggested it to build of of Hunter Gold that has a kill requirement. I would be fine with a different secondary condition (maybe beating it under 40,000 turns to encourage rushing through a challenge that otherwise encourages slow play, if it's not too hard for a Platinum?), or just leaving it at beating AoD on UV.

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Regarding the Apostle, I do agree he's cake, but it would be pretty frustrating to grind through Angel of 100 / Archangel of 666 and then die to him. Especially with the suggested proposal of creating a guaranteed method of getting Dragonslayer and Berserker Armor in those games, players would become even more likely to fight the Apostle in that game type. Additionally, the architecture of the level stays in one piece, so him teleporting around means you can just camp until he finds you again, killing the Nightmare Demons and other enemies while waiting. I'd have to think about this suggestion more.

I do get it could be frustrating to die to him, but you do have to go out of your way to encounter him (you certainly have no reason to ever wear Berserker Armor unless you want the Apostle Insignia or a full win in A100/666), and there should be some risk to encountering him. I also don't think camping would be too effective; aside from the fact you'll get gradually worn down by the reviving enemies and eternally spawning Nightmare Demons, his health also regenerates, so wait around too long and he'll just get most or even all of his health back.

_____

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Heroic Bronze/Silver/Gold/Platinum/Diamond Badges - Change these values to 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, if we change the medal count to 50.

I also overlooked this one from before, perhaps add Heroic Angelic, and set the split for each of the badges at 5/15/25/35/45/50? Would be a little weird to have the Heroic series skip the Angelic tier, and according to the Badge Hunters thread, Heroic Diamond is currently one of the rarest Diamond badges (with only papilio and Tormuse having it, as well as you I think?), so I don't think it would be out of place in the Angelic tier (you could add a new especially hard medal if you think it would be too easy for an Angelic). With these proposed splits, you would also get Gold at the halfway point, which makes intuitive sense to me, and while you only have five medals left after getting Diamond, those remaining five are also probably going to be the hardest and most annoying to get.

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