Quick questions thread!

[shark20061]

"Hell just froze over..." and all the walls are blue. Aside from the blue walls, does this actually MEAN anything?

They'll break from any damage type, not just acid/fire/plasma.  Be careful cornershooting with a shotgun, or you'll blow your cover apart.

[Aki]

Does the Lava Elemental's attack work like a Revenant's attack in that it hits the square it aims for rather then flies by like a projectile? If so, how are you supposed to beat it without damage (or a BFG), since it's 2 radius?

On certain runs and certain games I can sidestep the attack of an Archvile - in other words, I move more then one square away from where it was aiming and the attack passes harmlessly. On certain other games that doesn't work - the attack "tracks" me (Yes, even with the same movespeed). For example: if the screen looked like this:

Code Select Expand

V....@....#
And it targeted me with an attack, and I took 2 steps backwards on one game, the attack would go like this:

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V...*.*@..#
And I would be safe. However, on the other games, if I tried to do the same thing, this would happen:

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V....@....#
"The Archvile raises his arms!"

Code Select Expand

V.....@...#

Code Select Expand

V....*x@..#
With the explosion occuring at the small X - and my player character getting hit.

I was thinking that it had to do with either Dodgemaster or MGk, but I could be wrong.

Yes, I know it's a long post but the questions are relatively quick to answer if you know the answers.

Any help would be much appreciated.

[ZicherCZ]

"Hell just froze over..." and all the walls are blue. Aside from the blue walls, does this actually MEAN anything?

Yep, it does - walls at this level can be damaged and destroyed by anything (bullets, shells, even melee).
Among other effects, it makes shotgun-cornershooting far less reliable, as you destroy your cover almost instantly.

[IronBeer]

(questions)

For your first question, I'm not sure. I *think* the Lava Elemental's attack behaves like a Revenant's attack. Generally speaking, blast attacks can be difficult to evade. That actually brings me to the second question.

In short: it's all about speed.
In a-bit-longer-but-actually-more-to-the-point: Arch-Viles (and Revenants, on a related note) are not technically affected by dodging. Yes, Fireangel will let you laugh off their attacks, but that's kind of a special case. (I'm working off of memory for this next bit not having played DoomRL for a bit, but I'm pretty sure I've got this right)- Arch-Viles will target a particular tile when they initiate their attack. They need about two turns their time to complete their attack, and having 130% speed, or about 4 actions for every 3 of yours, they are very good at firing their attack with you still in range. The only way to properly avoid an Arch-Vile's attack is to have a high enough movespeed to move two tiles from the targeted tile before the Arch-Vile can finish charging. I don't know what the exact minimum speed value is, but you need to be pretty quick to pull this off.

To crib from your own diagrams, this is sorta how it should look:

"The Archvile raises his arms!" The tile you are standing on is now targeted.

Code Select Expand

V.....@...#

You move one tile to the right before the Arch-Vile can finish charging. He hasn't reacted yet.

Code Select Expand

V.....X@..#

You move one more tile to the right and just barely clear the blast area as the Arch-Vile gets his second move.

Code Select Expand

V....*X*@.#

Hope this helps!

[Aki]

For your first question, I'm not sure. I *think* the Lava Elemental's attack behaves like a Revenant's attack. Generally speaking, blast attacks can be difficult to evade. That actually brings me to the second question.

That's kinda stupid - Without MFa, how are you going to be dodging a homing attack with a *2* square radius? That's assuming that you can sidestep the blast from a revenant attack - I believe that the rocket explodes on the same turn it's fired, meaning that even with baseline movespeed you won't be able to "dodge" it.

I don't even know. ;_;

In short: it's all about speed.
In a-bit-longer-but-actually-more-to-the-point: Arch-Viles (and Revenants, on a related note) are not technically affected by dodging. Yes, Fireangel will let you laugh off their attacks, but that's kind of a special case. (I'm working off of memory for this next bit not having played DoomRL for a bit, but I'm pretty sure I've got this right)- Arch-Viles will target a particular tile when they initiate their attack. They need about two turns their time to complete their attack, and having 130% speed, or about 4 actions for every 3 of yours, they are very good at firing their attack with you still in range. The only way to properly avoid an Arch-Vile's attack is to have a high enough movespeed to move two tiles from the targeted tile before the Arch-Vile can finish charging. I don't know what the exact minimum speed value is, but you need to be pretty quick to pull this off.

To crib from your own diagrams, this is sorta how it should look:

"The Archvile raises his arms!" The tile you are standing on is now targeted.

Code Select Expand

V.....@...#

You move one tile to the right before the Arch-Vile can finish charging. He hasn't reacted yet.

Code Select Expand

V.....X@..#

You move one more tile to the right and just barely clear the blast area as the Arch-Vile gets his second move.

Code Select Expand

V....*X*@.#

Hope this helps!
[/quote]

So it is actually a speed issue. Okay, thanks, I must have been imagining it.

[IronBeer]

That's kinda stupid - Without MFa, how are you going to be dodging a homing attack with a *2* square radius? That's assuming that you can sidestep the blast from a revenant attack - I believe that the rocket explodes on the same turn it's fired, meaning that even with baseline movespeed you won't be able to "dodge" it.

I don't even know. ;_;

Revenants are difficult to fight in an open field unless you're a lot faster than them. They're fairly strong in melee as well, though a melee build that reaches a master trait (particularly Blademaster or MALICIOUS BLADES) shouldn't have a too much trouble.

One thing to remember about the Lava Elemental is that he's slow. Yes, the fireball attack will hurt, but if you really unload on him with plasma weapons (Ammochain) or really get in his grill with melee combat, he shouldn't be able to throw more than one or two fireballs.

[Eyro]

Can we change malicious blades to delicious blades?

I like the idea that a Tech drinks the demon blood from his offhand knife to give him resistances.

[Aki]

I believe the name Malicious Blades is a forum reference, much like Malek's set.

[Eyro]

Well I primarily meant it as a joke. :v

However: TRIVIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[WanderingNewbie]

2 quick questions:

1. If I skip special stages can I still get 100% kills?

2. What's a couple common strategies for beating extra special secret boss?

[White Rider]

2 quick questions:

1. If I skip special stages can I still get 100% kills?

2. What's a couple common strategies for beating extra special secret boss?

1. You can skip special stages and still get 100% kills.

You only don't get 100% kills if you leave a level when not everything is dead. But you can leave Hell's Arena after the first or second waves are done, opt out of continuing and still get YAAM--you only won't get YAAM if you summon the next wave(s) and leave the floor.

2. Shoot at it until it dies.

Edit: I'm sorry if that's not useful, but I think it's worth trying a few times and then experimenting afterward. The easiest way is probably just have a really strong melee build and be able to berserk-steamroll everything.

[WanderingNewbie]

2. Shoot at it until it dies.

Edit: I'm sorry if that's not useful, but I think it's worth trying a few times and then experimenting afterward. The easiest way is probably just have a really strong melee build and be able to berserk-steamroll everything.

For what it's worth, I laughed.  Yeah I quickly learned today that he can't be beaten by every build it seems, pistols just can't deal with his unit creation when i went up against him.

[White Rider]

For what it's worth, I laughed.  Yeah I quickly learned today that he can't be beaten by every build it seems, pistols just can't deal with his unit creation when i went up against him.

Hmm, yeah. That's not easy by any stretch. I'm not sure if I've gotten a full win above HNTR with a pistol build/AoMr.

[WanderingNewbie]

Hmm, yeah. That's not easy by any stretch. I'm not sure if I've gotten a full win above HNTR with a pistol build/AoMr.

Hahaha, funny story.  I was playing on ITYTD to get back into the grove of the game.  IDK maybe I'm just bad vov.

[Aki]

It's certainly possible to beat JC with pistols - I did so back in the day with Gun Kata, and I don't see why it'd be any less plausible now.

The key would be action speed and dodging for sure - JC has a maximum of 500 HP and 5 armor as well as a nasty +12 base accuracy. I believe that his summoned minions don't act for 4 seconds similar to arch-vile revives, in which case with a reasonable firing speed you'd be able to severely wound him, if not outright kill him before the minions start to move, taking into account JC has a speed of 100%. I believe he also teleports around to follow you now if you move out of his LOS (Not sure if he always did that?), so you can run from the enemies. Getting a low movespeed and firing speed is crucial, but it's certainly doable.

Doesn't make me any less scared to face him, though.