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Author Topic: Rewards and unlockable things : introduce unlockable levels ?  (Read 9078 times)

Horyon

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To begin with, I apologize for my bad english, this is not my native language.

After reading a few posts, I've noticed a few things about doom rl players.

Some people seem to like rewards. They like the idea that completing a challenge or winning the game on a particular difficulty level unlocks things. But :
1) In the actual game, some experience ranks require to play hours and hours to be achieved and give minor rewards.
2) Some people dislike the fact that they have to complete challenges to unlock difficulty levels. AoB seems to be the most disliked.

So, what could be proposed to make the game (even) more enjoyable ?

Usually, completing a game allows to unlock the following things :
* New characters to play
* New items
* New difficulty levels and challenges
* New levels or new missions
* Cheat codes
* Ranks or medals

Let's look at them.

It's hard to imagine that completing a challenge could unlock an item. Or maybe a very specific one ? A challenge could unlock a new unique item in the sense that it allows this item to spawn. But this idea is dubious as the change wouldn't be easily perceptible and it could be frustrating.

If new characters are unlockable, they must be different from the base character. A fun idea that I've found in a post is to allow the player to play a monster (an imp for example). I honestly can't see any other way of exploiting this idea.

The idea of unlocking new difficulty levels and challenges is IMO a good one. Maybe difficulties and challenges should be separated, because people who like to play challenges are not always those who like to play at higher difficulty levels. So maybe, challenges should only unlock other challenges.

Unlockable cheat codes have already been discussed and many people are against. However, I support the idea of allowing players to cheat once they have completed nightmare for example, but it's not essential.

Ranks and experience levels should probably be preserved as they create an incentive to keep on playing. However, I don't think they should be THAT hard. To begin with, there are many players that do not like to play melee. Therefore, it's a pain to be forced to punch cacodemons just to reach an higher rank. In general, objectives are often set a bit high.

New levels could be an interesting idea. Let me explain.
After completing the main game, the player could be allowed to visit another part of phobos/deimos or whatever, which could be different in terms of :
- Enemies that the player will meet (some enemies may spawn more or less or be absent)
- Special levels and unique items (the main games is a bit "crowded" with unique levels and unique items)
- Lava/acid density
- Rate of spawn of items and weapons
- Goals : why not have the player complete in a limited time, or ask him to find a key object in each level ?
- This would be the perfect place for experiencing new things ! Some specific levels/items/monsters/traits/levers/features that could not fit in the original game could have a place in a campaign.

So, what do you think ?
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Potman

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I think you make very good points, and I'm with you.
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Solarn

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Hmm... this would dramatically increase the replayability of the game. Not that it's all that low now. :P Would require an assload of code, but might be worth it. I'm supporting this idea.
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jake250

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I despise unlockables. Stop taking things away from me just because I don't have time to bother playing. Its even more true with such a game, which I might just download from another computer to waste some time.

Don't get me wrong, new things are nice, but we don't need more unlockables. It personally really gets on my nerve when every things needs to be unlocked, its a fake way of making the game supposedly last longer and I don't buy it. Give me the full experience at first and don't let me waste my time to get it for no reason.

Even the CHALLENGES gets on my nerve because you need to unlock them.
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bfg9001

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I despise unlockables. Stop taking things away from me just because I don't have time to bother playing.

Lol, right on; God forbid you're rewarded for your hard efforts, right?
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Korimyr the Rat

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Lol, right on; God forbid you're rewarded for your hard efforts, right?

I don't necessarily agree with removing unlockable Challenge Modes, but it is a pain in the ass having to play through several Challenges that one has no interest in-- AoP and AoLT come to mind-- in order to unlock the one or two game modes that one is interested in playing through. Easy to understand how someone would get extremely frustrated with it, especially if they're not as obsessive as the typical Roguelike player.
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Luksa

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Well but that's the point.
I can't still get to Ao100, but that doesn't mean I will give up on winning (H)AoI.
If you can't bear the fact you need to do something hard in order to get such a challenge, then you don't enjoy the game as much as others.
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ParaSait

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Really good ideas, man! I 100% agree =)
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Solarn

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I despise unlockables. Stop taking things away from me just because I don't have time to bother playing. Its even more true with such a game, which I might just download from another computer to waste some time.

Don't get me wrong, new things are nice, but we don't need more unlockables. It personally really gets on my nerve when every things needs to be unlocked, its a fake way of making the game supposedly last longer and I don't buy it. Give me the full experience at first and don't let me waste my time to get it for no reason.

Even the CHALLENGES gets on my nerve because you need to unlock them.
Then maybe you shouldn't be playing this game. There are other roguelikes out there without unlockables. There, you don't have to worry about not getting the "full experience" without having played it for a time and you can get everything the moment you start up the game. After all, getting extra stuff you didn't work for is the American way!
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bfg9001

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After all, getting extra stuff you didn't work for is the American way!

Lol, true that.

[sarcasm]
God Bless the welfare system.
[/sarcasm]

:P
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Vestin

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After all, getting extra stuff you didn't work for is the American way!
DOOM:RL is one of the fastest, shortest and simplest roguelikes there are... and that's how it should be.
If it's not broken - don't fix it.

You know what ? Let's make unlockables optional. Just IMAGINE they already are in the game and don't use certain things until you think you "achieved" them ;P.
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rekenne

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Wow. Uh. Lot of condescension going on in here.
Really, I agree with the idea of making things not unlockable - I've been playing this game for 3+ years, but I've only beaten the game a handful of times. Playing the base game so many times has gotten a bit on the stale side, despite how much the game has changed over the years.
I've been doing some of the challenge ideas since long before they were official. I've loved the idea of a pistol only game, just because it plays so differently, etc. Some of the challenges just bore me, as compared to making the game more fun. I play the game for the challenge, sure, and really felt accomplished when I beat AoMr for my first time. Still, though, I ended up just replacing my Player File with Blade's, when he posted it a couple of weeks ago and have been having a blast with Ao100. Challenge, sure, but fun is more important.
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RepoRipper

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if ur bored with standard DoomRL, and your an obsessive Rougelike lover like me, go rustle up T.O.M.E.
if u get bored with T.O.M.E. .................. nothing will EVER satisfy you! as for unlockable levels.... campaigns.... definetly! i had the original idea for having doomguy accept the offer hell makes at Hell's Arena, and become Hell's Champion (FLING DEM ACIDBALLS!!!), and my story says that he was the FIRST doomguy, the hero is #2, and while our hero wiped out Phobos, Doom, Hell's Champion led the forces of evil against Earth's defenses (So THAT'S how they beat earth's entire military when one lone marine beat the crap out of them on Phobos.....). so the Hell's Champion campaign is pretty cool. especially since you start out with the BCBC ("BCx2), the Beam Corruption Bio-Cannon (tainted BFG).... oww. you also have a combat shotgun to start, and as the Champion, u can fling acidballs like a Baron. and, the monsters help u. of course, the enemies are really fing strong. the weakest guy has a Minigun. not chaingun, minigun. ie swiss cheese = you!.... and you know whats funny? everything ive said after the story part ive just been typing up on the spot lol. still, the BCx2 and the acidballs are from way back when i first suggested this guy. note, the unlock could easily make you work for this campaign - unlocking gives you the option to accept the Hell's Arena offer... of course the offer is only made if you COMPLETE the arena. if you back out of the fights, too bad. its fairly early so... interesting idea huh? and the final boss could be the Terran General (and your superior, who sent you out to die.... revenge is cherished in hell, mercy is punished....) in some sort of battle mech! hmmmmm...........
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Sachiko

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Wow... Just... Wow.

The idea of doing the "Evil path" is certainly seducing. Being in the other side of the conflict can prove to be an amazing point of view.
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bfg9001

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Playing as "Evil" would be pretty cool. Didn't exactly picture it like that though, lol. A mech would be somewhat out of place.
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