DRL > Requests For Features

Sokoban level - tribute to Nethack

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skarczew:
Just why do you want to buff AoB? I don't like the mere idea of it.
If anything, the reward should suit all builds and challenges.

Ander Hammer:

--- Quote from: Melon on July 30, 2012, 09:35 ---I would see it this way:
- This level should be easier for berserks. We only have one true berserker level.
--- End quote ---

'Berserkers', that is, marines presumably choosing at least a few melee traits, already have an entire string of special levels that benefit them specifically - Chained Court, Unholy Cathedral, and the Mortuary. 'Because they don't have enough' isn't a good enough reason on its own to give them something else.


--- Quote ---- No diagonal movement!
--- End quote ---

Why? What would the problem be? Nethack handles it well enough, and levels can be/are simply designed so that you can only move the rocks in the cardinal directions, anyway.


--- Quote ---- Lava barrels. If you shot, lava spurs out, sometimes blocking the puzzles. Tough luck! You still can exit the level normal way.
--- End quote ---

Sokoban, at its heart, is not about combat. While DoomRL is, I honestly don't mind the idea of a special level that doesn't involve combat at all, like 100% of the rest of the game. Branching from that, my point: without combat, you wouldn't shoot any of the barrels. On the other hand, if there was fighting involved on this level, as can be the case in Nethack, this kind of random 'screw you' doesn't look good on a level's resume, similar to how you were once able to destroy the lever in Hell's Armory.


--- Quote ---- As for the enemy I would imagine some great daemon that throws barrels at you or pieces of wall or corpses, whatever it has at his hands. If you get hit, you get pushed back, making it harder for you to reach it. This daemon is very slow, but can kill you in two hits. Yup! But if you are a fast berserker/dodger you can use the hit and run tactics. As for ranged weapons, it is heavily armored and it's hard to do any damage from range unless you hit its weak spot (bonus from Eagle Eye perhaps?)
--- End quote ---

'Moar damage' and 'moar armor' aren't particularly cerebral answers to the question 'how do we make this boss interesting and challenging?'. It seems to me that, after solving a brain teaser, an encounter with a 'boss' should be creative and inventive, not 'hur dur kill you in two hits while not taking damage'. (It could be argued that, after all of that thinking, Doomguy wants some action, but we already have several big, heavily-armored, highly-damaging enemies to fight... they're the reason you went to Hell in the first place.)


I plain don't like the idea of making it 'for berserkers', either. Since it's Nethack's Sokoban that spawned this idea, maybe one of its artifacts are given? A bag of holding, granting a few extra inventory slots, or an amulet of reflection... its original function would be absurdly overpowered in DoomRL, so change it to a percentage chance, and/or perhaps upon being hit by a projectile.

Melon:
1) What I meant for berserker is a level like Unholy Cathedral. This would be easier for berserker, since you won't damage the lava barrels by accident (if you use a pistol for example you might as well miss the target and shoot the barrel, sorry!).

2) As for no diagonal movement... Well, it's Sokoban, we don't have to copy everything from Nethack, right?

3) Yes, yes, yes. Lava barrels. If you start moving aimlessly, more monster will spawn tearing your health down. So it's a brain teaser, try to solve in as few moves as you can, not just by a random pushing of barrels around.

4) Hm. I have to agree, that the enemy would be a something more for brain teasing to make it unique

Klear:
I don't know how is that handled in nethack, but how do you prevent the level to be devoid of any challenge once you solve it and remember how you did it?

Ander Hammer:
Nethack had something of a time limit in the form of the nutrition system, as well as a few monsters to occasionally spice things up and ruin the level on rare occasions. There were only a few layouts, so once you figured them out (or spoiled them) then you just had to remember and it was sort of easy, unless you got an inconvenient monster. (This is somewhat comparable to figuring out a 'trick' for DoomRL's existing special levels, I guess.)

Melon, your argument hasn't changed. Your reasoning - a berserker won't accidentally shoot a barrel - is still essentially giving a berserker an advantage 'just because', in addition to saying 'haha, screw you' if bad luck strikes a normal marine, and god forbid you use a shotgun. Either way, making the stones into lava barrels screws everyone equally when one explodes while you're pushing it.

It would be fine (in fact, probably pretty aggravating) if you just plain had hard-to-destroy blocks to move while the occasional enemy spawned in over time, ensuring you aren't skipping through without using resources.

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