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[IronBeer]

[Stuff under the spoiler]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Surprisingly, the first clue isn't as intuitive as one may think. When I realized that the first clue wasn't ...complete, I realized I had to try another approach.

(It's a safe spoiler, guys. It should be sufficiently cryptic.)

[Klear]

Could you maybe stop posting the stuff that isn't working? I'd rather give it a fair shot without any hints.

[skarczew]

Reasons for theory:
Berskerk!'s story (I really must re-read it), Dragonslayer being a type of multiple-rocket artillery as well as a big sword (you can have one and not the other) and the aforementioned sacrifice posts (I still don't know if the daemons behind the wall are allegorically Polish or commies. Maybe neither). Now I'll probably never see it again for a few versions.

I may have not read all the Berserk volumes, but I have read enough of them to say that DS is not a multiple-rocket artillery...

The Devteam is doing a good job and has made a terrific game that deserves to be commended.  Again, I don't want to anger anyone and I don't want to undermine the great work they have made on the game, but I think it is also worth noting that the previous version was released with a number of major bugs (Fireangel, Destroyer Diamond, etc.) and this version was very nearly released with a major bug that would have denied people a lot of badges that I thankfully caught at the last minute.  This bug came about because of an emphasis on adding new features over cleaning up existing problems.  This is not to say that the Devteam never fixes bugs; I'm just saying that Skarczew has a legitimate complaint.

I hope noone is angry about this post, but just in case, this should calm anyone down!  :D

EDIT:  Ooh!  666th post!  Ominous!  :o

Thanks, that is exactly what I am thinking (and sometimes I have problems formulating my feelings).

Btw, nice kittens! =)

[Sereg]

Could you maybe stop posting the stuff that isn't working? I'd rather give it a fair shot without any hints.

That's why it's all spoiler tagged ;)

@Equality:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

As far as your first condition - I had thoughts along those lines, but I wasn't able to fully test them as I had a cursed item(nanoskin/cybernano armor) everytime I found it. Might that be an impediment? As to the second condition... I'm still clueless.

[Klear]

Not everything. That's why I said that.

[scotherns]

I just picked up the Dragonslayer for the first time ever (3rd time I'd seen it). When I entered the level I got 'This will be a mess, Khe he he' AND 'You hear the sound of Hellish Mortars' AND 'There is something really valuable here'. With all the barrels and explosions, I was tempted to just leave as soon as found the stairs - until I saw what was lying on the ground.

I also have Berserker Armor from about 10 levels earlier :-)

Kinda ruined my Ao100 MSc build-all-the-assemblies run I was in the middle of, but I don't care!

[Matt_S]

Time for more vague hints. Spoilered for the people who care.

Spoiler: "Hint 1" (click to show/hide)

For any turn, given only a screenshot, I could tell you with 100% certainty whether you would succeed or fail in picking up the Dragonslayer.

Spoiler: "Hint 2" (click to show/hide)

I mentioned before that "There are certain things you can do beforehand to make it much easier to fulfill the requirements, if you don't want to rely on luck."  If you want to do it the easy way, knowing the source of the Dragonslayer is helpful.  If you want to do it the hard way, then you might want to hurry.

Spoiler: "Acknowledging another hint" (click to show/hide)

Equality's hints are also correct, though I disagree that the clue is really obvious.

Spoiler: "How I know" (click to show/hide)

For those who are curious, I figured out the secret to using the DS/BA(but not the guaranteed spawn, hehehe) before source diving.  There's actually a certain mod on these forums that helped a whole lot with testing.  Though I had to edit the mod a bit, and it won't even run unedited on the current version of DoomRL...

[Sereg]

Spoiler: Some questions related to your hints. (click to show/hide)

Does the informative portion of the screenshot include the floor map as well? Meaning conditions like walls, dropped items, barrels, fluids, corpses, etc. are a factor? Or are you referring to just player information, like tactics, equipped items; statuses like berserk, invulnerable, envirosuit; ammo count, floor depth and completion status, health, and other displayed textual information?

Is the second hint implying that the conditions are time sensitive?

Equality's clues are quite vague, in my opinion. The first one... I have an idea about, but if it's not that, then I'm clueless. My guess was something I wasn't able to fully achieve due to cursed equipment, but I did try variations of it. As for the second condition... well, that just makes it even more confusing.

Are BA's wear requirements and DS's pickup requirements related in some way? I had no better luck with the one then the other.

[Matt_S]

Spoiler: "Vague and probably unhelpful replies" (click to show/hide)

Re: screenshots, I'm going to (conspicuously) avoid answering that.

Re: the second hint, one of the two conditions is.

Re: Equality's clues, yeah, the hints are pretty vague, but the fact that there's two conditions is really important.  One of them literally any character can satisfy when they encounter the Dragonslayer, without any preparation, on any challenge, difficulty, etc.

Re: the BA, "when the time comes, you'll know."

[Equality]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Re:For any turn, given only a screenshot, I could tell you with 100% certainty whether you would succeed or fail in picking up the Dragonslayer
How? You do not see all required things just because HUD not contain ALL about 1st condition :) Only say "Yes, you have a possibility of pickup DS" or "No, you fail"

[Matt_S]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Re:For any turn, given only a screenshot, I could tell you with 100% certainty whether you would succeed or fail in picking up the Dragonslayer
How? You do not see all required things just because HUD not contain ALL about 1st condition :) Only say "Yes, you have a possibility of pickup DS" or "No, you fail"

Ohoho, the requirement is stricter than I realized.  I feel rather foolish now.

So I guess it actually is possible screw yourself out of being able to pick it up, now that I think about it.

[Equality]

Well, I think that mystery about DS is ... contrived?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

As far as we can create own modules for game, we can...

-- Try to add DS on custom map and seek the conditions
-- If DS do not appear at custom modules we can add to some not so rare weapon (maybe pistol?) code OnPickupCheck=items["udragon"].OnPickupCheck, and experiment freely
-- rearrange special levels at custom module and put UC (where on some conditions on N! we can get DS) to first episode. Can understand both the conditions for spawning DS at UC, and conditions for pickup it.
And so on. For now, it is a mystery only for thouse who do not want (or can't) write own maps.

[thelaptop]

This discussion has gone on enough.  No more.

I warned you all that I'm monitoring this.

Edit: Upon conferring with Kornel, we will be unlocking this.

[Kornel Kisielewicz]

Ok, this is seriously a joke that went too far - I've seen people raging about the DS/BA no-spoiler ChaosForge rule on other forums :).

Hence, let's just agree that the topic of the DS/BA should not appear on the official Wiki, and if being discussed on the forums, please use spoiler tags.

Have fun, and do not rage! (at least not until wielding the Dragonslayer!)

[thelaptop]

Also, to be clear, I am merely an enforcer -- I enforce the Will of the God Hand.

No hard feelings to everyone involved.