DoomRL > Discussion

Only played this for a weekish now, some praises/questions

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Ghaleon:
I actually found that pistols seems really really good as soon as I make it out of the arena...The arena itself though is really nasty because you don't have enough dps to burst down a demon just yet, and I'm not fast enough to outrun them either yet. It's really not that bad if you aren't unlucky, but I kept getting one arena after another after another where I'd spawn right on top of like 2 demons and 1-2 cacodemons. Even with 3 free turns it's just too much for a pistol user with just 1 level =P.

About rapid builds though aside from ammochain, that's correct, I failed to consider how much more useful miniguns would be if they were more accurate. I still can't help but wonder though how one deals with the ammo efficiency issues, because even with pistols (which are more efficient at ammo conservation), ammo is an issue...though I guess maybe it's outweighed by the fact that as dw pistols, you can't use 250x ammo boxes.

I also wanna try single-wield pistol with 3 ranks of sonnofagun, and 2 ranks finesse (only cuz you can't get rank 4 and 5 of SoG until way late). I'll probably try this approach for those general master traits that don't favor any weapons.

Anyway I finished my 100 floor thing with shotgun. It's kinda sad, immediately after I committed to shotguns, I had clerica beretta's drop...like 8 of them, seriously...it was just mean, I also saw a single combat pistol (which I like more but only 1). I got 2 more sniper mods, and a firestorm mod, never got to nano my super shotgun, which would have been nice because I REALLY had to skip killing monsters to conserve ammo later on. Archvilles were the most common enemy, not sure if that's weird or not.

Thiebs:

--- Quote from: Ghaleon on February 27, 2014, 15:22 ---I still can't help but wonder though how one deals with the ammo efficiency issues, because even with pistols (which are more efficient at ammo conservation), ammo is an issue...though I guess maybe it's outweighed by the fact that as dw pistols, you can't use 250x ammo boxes.

--- End quote ---
If you find yourself having ammo issues a lot, it might be that you're building your traits a little too aggressively. Triggerhappy and Finesse are great for raw DPS, but SoB and EE are better for making each round count.
Also, and you might already know this, so sorry if it sounds stupid, but you can carry those ammo boxes around and use 'U' to unload them when your 100x stacks are running low.

Sylph:
Theibs is right - pistol users can use ammo boxes to store bullets just fine, they just don't get a reload speed bonus from carrying them in the offhand!

As for rapidfire ammo issues - Sure, pistols use less bullets than chainguns, but rapidfire characters also get to use cells as a main ammo source. This is like having twice as much ammo drop! This alone is enough ammo to play through the game with, but there are other tips to offer if you're somehow still struggling:

Miniguns and BFGs are a great way of storing ammo (although you might want to use the first mnigun you find for a highpower or TTTAF modding project!). Then there's nuclear plasma rifles, nano/nanomachic, and (on nightmare or vs archviles) corpse-farming, but none of these are necessary, they're just useful to haves.
Finally, carry a shotgun and a single stack of shells as a backup weapon. Shotguns are remarkably ammo-efficient. Also, I like to carry the chainsaw with me most of the time. A few ranks of eagle eye and good use of 'tagging' tricks make the chainsaw a surprisingly reliable weapon to conserve ammo.

Ghaleon:
I actually didn't realize you could 'U' an ammo box, that will help alot! thanks!

Still have to experiment on the math with gunkata builds but I did the sharpshooter build recently and discovered that 3 ranks of son of a gun makes finesse near useless... In that situation attack speed is multiplicative, not added, so your 0.4s attackspeed merely drops down to 0.34. Hopefully the 20% penalty with the dual wield trait is also multiplicative instead of added, otherwise you are better off using 1 pistol with 5 ranks of SoG over using 2.

That said I managed to die in halls of carnage of all places qq. I was at the end and was just roaming around trying to peg off the last baron for 100% kill completion, I had 44% health and was wearing armor, Id idn't think a baron could hit that hard in one hit.. welp, apparently they can *cries*, I turned a corner looking for it, got acid-balled to the face, and died. Halls of carnage.. seriously, it's like the easiest special floor in the game.. ugh.

aka_Cthulhu:

--- Quote from: Ghaleon on February 28, 2014, 19:29 ---I actually didn't realize you could 'U' an ammo box, that will help alot! thanks!

Still have to experiment on the math with gunkata builds but I did the sharpshooter build recently and discovered that 3 ranks of son of a gun makes finesse near useless... In that situation attack speed is multiplicative, not added, so your 0.4s attackspeed merely drops down to 0.34. Hopefully the 20% penalty with the dual wield trait is also multiplicative instead of added, otherwise you are better off using 1 pistol with 5 ranks of SoG over using 2.

--- End quote ---

I recently did a run on Ao666 using a gun kata build. Didn't really pay attention to the math, but here's what I found. Attack speed was around .9 I think? Maybe less than that. Using a storm bolter combat pistol and a grammaton at burst mode on the other hand, it took around 2 shots max on hell knights. Archviles, mancubi, barons usually took 2-3. Shamblers, nightmare archviles, agony elementals, and flame elementals took... I didn't really pay attention to how many shots were fired, but they were killed before both guns went empty. Cyberdemons required me to reload manually once before they go down.

The combat pistol with the storm mod and the beretta were fast at taking anything down (even without the beretta, a second storm bolter had helped me out). Like... when I enter a new floor I could be surrounded by two groups of barons of hell and archviles. Before any of them could fire, I would have finished them all out so long as I had the bullets to spare, which I did. Every few floors there's usually a group of former captains, and all I had to do was be careful not to accidentally hit a barrel, and make sure mancubi and revenants were out of sight before taking the ammo.

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