DoomRL > Discussion

Nightmare Anomaly

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Sylph:

--- Quote from: GinDiamond on November 12, 2013, 19:03 ---Try not to rely just on rapidfire weapons.
--- End quote ---
I'm trying this with a primarily rapidfire build. That doesn't mean I'm going to use them exclusively, but I'm using a build centered on them because I believe they're powerful weapons, and I have already acheived (in the past) melee and even hybrid pistol build victories on N! (albeit before the anomaly existed). Using traits like SoaB, shotguns are *much* worse than rapidfire weapons in most situations, particularly taking out N! cacodemons in an open space (More on enclosed spaces later), but I still use them where appropriate, and for most of this crowded start-room ambush.

--- Quote ---My strategy to get past the Anomaly is:
a) Get lucky with 2 phases and...
--- End quote ---
Of course. Not the 'tactic' I'm interested in here though.


--- Quote ---If no phase devices, but I have a rocket launcher, I gather up what gear I want in the first room and drop what I can't fit right away by the righthand corners. I leave the globes be for later if I need them. I then equip red armor and the rocket launcher. I open the door, go out of the first room, and when the walls drop and I get raped, I rocket jump backward into my room MAKE SURE YOU DIDN'T CLOSE THE DOOR. I've found that with red armor on, and if you didn't hit any monster, just one rocket jump is needed to land you safely behind the door. Close the door and recuperate. From there, open the door repeatedly and pick off enemies with a mix of shotgun/rapidfire weapons.
--- End quote ---
First of all, I feel it worth mentioning this is pretty much exactly what I do on lower difficulties to close the anomaly. Hearing that you use it on N! I find *extremely* interesting. I'm unsure what I'm doing wrong, but 2 huge issues hit me when I try this (It was pretty much my default tactic when I had no phase devices but a rocket launcher)...
1 The first is that, after reaching the start room, I'm unable to close the door. Between nightmare demons catching me up, and nightmare Cacos knocking me aside, the door is always blocked by a N! demon. (interesting thought just now - 2 steps to the left, before the rocket jump, so that I'm in the right place to close the door, assuming N! cacos haven't hit me yet (doubtful, I guess)...) Not that I usually mind being in front of a blocked doorway, because I intend to knockback-trap them with a shotgun, and the AOE of a blocked up demon-swarmed door seems ideal. Leading me to:
2. No matter how well i use combinations of running mode, shotgun shell boxes for knockback traps, and medkits (bear in mind technicians use medkits in something like 0.2s) I *still* get slaughtered by the demon swarm. I assume my shotgun fails to knock back the rear demons, meaning the ones biting me have no squares behind them to go back into, so instead stay where they are and keep biting me. Also, N! cacodemons are just untouchable with a shotgun in this kind of build (obviously best to change to chaingun after the demons are dead, but resurrecting demons (due to the shotgun use causing an inability to kill them in doorways for no-corpse kills) soon ruin that tactic.) Attempting to fight the swarm of demons and Cacos with a tactical assortment of weapons and items is pretty much how I always die on the level, which had me convinced (before your post) that the only way through it was to skip it or berserk it.


--- Quote ---Once that room is clean, recuperate, take inventory, change armors/whatever, and then advance to the bruisers.
--- End quote ---
You must be killing those demons SO much quicker that I can. I lose pretty much (ie completely torn apart) all my armour (including a 200% power-modded red last attempt), along with both large health globes, during the fight at the doorway! :D

Just to help me understand this, 2 other questions:

1. What kind of % success rate do you get with your 'no phase device' tactic? Because I've had some remarkably well equipped non-melee marines attempt it, and not a single one has managed to clear it.
2. You posted what you do when you are lucky with phase devices, and what you do when you don't have them. Would you mind going over what you do when you are UN-lucky with phase devices, given that it stops you from rocket jumping to the start room so quickly, and can even (often) land you deeper in the ambush that you were before...
3. What do you do when you have no rocket launcher and no phase device?


--- Quote ---Good luck!
--- End quote ---
Haha, the day I have even mediocre luck on the anomaly will be the day I get my win, i think!

To note, I can make it to the anomaly about 95% of the time now, though, so at least I have training against the little ones, and I'm pretty confident that the new nightmare (not really new any more) will get easier when I can manage corpses more effectively using a rocket launcher. Thiis is my silver lining, don't take it away from me! :D

GinDiamond:
Success rate for the no phases? Hah, possibly like 40% or so

I don't like to admit it, but I save-scum right before the anomaly to try try again.


I don't really know how you'll take out the demon horde with rapidfire, but what about a burst cannon? It shoots weirdly and "scatters" a bit, making it the only ranged weapon I know of that has a sort of spread.

Sylph:

--- Quote from: GinDiamond on November 13, 2013, 07:31 ---Success rate for the no phases? Hah, possibly like 40% or so

I don't like to admit it, but I save-scum right before the anomaly to try try again.

--- End quote ---
Hang on, isn't saving disabled on nightmare difficulty?

GinDiamond:
Sorry, I meant save-scumming on like Ultra-Violence.

Yes, its true that for me with Nightmare!, if I die, I die. Then I have to hope for a good roll next time.

Sambojin:
I don't play on N! much, so you can take this advice with a grain of salt, but here's what works for me:

The aforementioned lucky phase. You can usually get about 2-3 of them by the anomaly, so phase and hope. Then either get out or rocket the hell out of the bruisers.

Zerk running from CC with a *marine or scout*. Honestly, it's heaps of zerk time with a marine or an Int(2) scout to power on down there and get a bit chainsaw happy on some daemons. It doesn't necessarily need a melee build to do it well, you can just do it with guns as soon as you spring the trap. Big guns preferably. The extra resistances are great regardless of what you do.
 
Double barrel shotguns. More chance of knockback, often more knockback when it does happen and a really good spread. If you're going to sit in the doorway and peek'n'blast, do it with a DB shotty, not a normal one. Throw a P, T or B mod on it if you can. Shell boxes, Rel, SM, Fin, SoaB or Jug are all your friends here, so it's not too build specific. Double knockback chance and a wider spread can make all the difference. Reload time isn't really a concern if you just shut the door to do it.

Shottyman. It works with shotguns, it works with rocket launchers, and it comes with Rel(2). Great for any difficulty level, but that step-reload can make all the difference. Be a moving DB shotty turret if the peek'n'shoot technique goes belly up. Handy vs the bruisers as well to rocket spam them to death with a bit of a dodge chance while running.

Juggler. Open door, Bam! Then a few more Bams! Then maybe a Kaboom! One of the best traits for any build, and works great for rapidfire anomaly N! runs. Fill them full of bullets/plasma, then at the last moment (ie: when they're 1-2 squares away) cycle through 2 DBs and a shotty or two. They *will* be knocked back. Whip out a RL if you feel like it. Close door, reload, repeat.

Rocket jump to the right or left, while *already running*.  It only saves 0.1 second, but that can be handy. Just hit run one space before the trap is sprung, spring trap, move 1 space right or left and rocket jump. It'll get you next to the door, then you can decide to rocket spam, peek'n'shoot, or rapidfire your way through.

I think your problem lies in relying soley on rapidfire weapons. Shotguns (especiall DB ones) and RLs work with any build, and are the best thing for this situation. Sure you'll get corpse respawns sometimes just because stacking is harder with knockback/spread weapons, but you'll probably get a few using rapidfire anyway. Try them out. N! limits the shotties a bit, but a DB with a P mod on it still has pretty good chances of knockback even after armour reduction (and gets two chances to get a decent damage roll, with plusses for whatever level of SoaB you have for your rapidfire build).
 

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